Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Smokeless?

I have a couple of sidelocks. I have a TC Greyhawk and a Renegade that I put a Green Mountain LRH barrel on with Globe front and Vernier rear. They only get used for draw hunts in states that require lead bullets and open ignition.

I'm about to head to USPS to pick up a 700ML that will get rebarreled with a Pac-nor. I have a NULA 209 also. This afternoon I am taking a Savage ML-II hunting. I got started into this when I shot a friend's Bad Bull muzzleloader.

I don't muzzleload for the challenge of the hunt. I have a longbow for that (I don't shoot compounds). I like rifles and smokeless muzzleloaders are new and exciting muzzleloaders to me. More than anything they let me hunt seasons I can't hunt otherwise while giving me the greatest advantage.

If you buy into the "only accurate rifles are interesting" idea than this works for me:


That's a half minute muzzleloader that is lethal to 300yds. Somehow I did my math wrong, that group is .522 MOA.

your the one chewing on your panty liner .

you want a muzzleloader , get one
whant a black powder rifle , get one
want a muzzleloading rifle , then eather buy one or convert the dam thing

you want a smokeless gun , fine say so . but dont ask for a black powder gun and exspect no one to call you on it when you start talking about smokless guns

I always thought the idea that cleaning smokeless was easier than real BP, was kind of funny.

I can clean the barrel/breech on a Hawken that's shooting real BP with one patch. Actually, I could even use that one patch over and over if I wanted too. It'also cheaper. No solvent to buy. Just a squirt of dishwashing detergent.

Smokeless has always taken 10-15 patches, and the patches were not reusable.


Cleaning shouldn't even be brought up as a reason to shoot smokeless.

Very ignorant post. I along with everyone else that I know personally that shoots smokeless muzzleloaders have never taken 10-15 patches to clean afterwards. This is also the first time I have ever heard of anyone taking that many patches to clean their smokeless muzzleloader. You don't even have one if I recall correctly? It is not necessarily all about the ease of cleaning but more of the fact that you don't have to clean.

I shoot smokeless in a Savage and a NULA. I shoot black powder (actually pyrodex) in a TC Cherokee and Renegade. Smokeless is so much easier, quicker, and less hassle to clean that there is no contest there....they aren't even in the same ballpark...they are easier all the way around. I'm really not sure how anyone can argue this one.

That being said, I still love to hunt with my TC's. I just love to hunt...with scoped smokeless ml's and with traditional iron-sighted ml's.

To the original poster woodsonchris....I have a stainless Savage bedded in a McMillan Classic swirly that I would consider selling. If you're interested shoot me a pm.

Been shooting smokeless CF guns for 60 years. Is a smokeless ML somehow different? What a clown.

Buy a Savage and don't look back.

You can clean smokeless with water and and Simple Green too.

HOLY BLACK all the way, nothing that I know of is more consistent and dependable.

Plus, nothing on this planet gives ya that satisfying BOOOOMMMMMMM!!!! like Black Powder.

Gunner

I got a savage ml2 this year for ML season. I worked up a load that shots 1" at 100 with 260gr bullets at 2275 fps. No cleaning, seating subsequent bullets is easy etc. Can't beat it.

2 years ago I shot twice at a buck and missed with my traditions ML using pyrodex pellets. Seating the third bullet required me to ram my rod against the tree I was standing next too. I don't take cleaning stuff along when I go into the woods and shooting more than once can and does happen when you have cannon ball trajectories.

Wow. This thread got pissy. Thanks to all who were actually helpful. I'll probably just buy a savage ml. People who own them seem to love em.

Well, till it went pissy there was a positive side to it. I was ignorant of the smokeless ml guns and now have something new to do with a Handi rifle I never shoot. So thanks for the post.

Just to be fair. You can take 50 shots with BH 209 with no swabbing and sub MOA accuracy at the 50th shot. Loads as easy at the 50th shot as the first. You just used the wrong powder. Pyrodex is old powder technology.

edit for content .

your right . smokeless muzzle loading rifles are black powder guns and a Mazda or Honda is also a muscle car.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._what_happened_to_the_sidelo#Post6813147

Do a Google search with this: "Savage 110ml blowup".

Yes I use 209 in that ML now and my wife uses it. If you are somehow trying to make b209 the same as smokeless, it's not. B209 costs more per can than smokeless and you get less in it, I have to use twice as much b209 (100gr by weight) vs smokeless (44gr)and get less speed. It's certainly the best you can do in old muzzle loaders.

I hate when these discussions become a who's more righteous contest. It's like the difference between guys who shoot stickbows and those who don't. I personally prefer the ergonomics of a stickbow over a compound. I also think crossbows are complete and total BS (as it applies to ARCHERY ONLY SEASON) unless you are crippled.

Muzzleloaders are any arm which loads from the muzzle vice breech without regard to propellant or projectile. The only time it should matter is if your state has a PRIMITIVE WEAPONS season. In particular, Inline and Smokeless muzzleloaders are ways for guys who live in places with bad gun laws to hunt like rifle hunters. They may well live in places where they aren't choosing to shoot front stuffers for the love of traditional sporting arms.

I own and shoot both. I own and shoot custom wildcat centerfires. I shoot a longbow. I keep up with modern rifle competition but also keep a copy of Ned Roberts's muzzleloader book and a copy of the Witchery of Archery by my bed.

This is another divide and conquer thing. Or to paraphrase Franklin, hang together or hang separately. I wish shooters and hunters would work together to create synergy for preserving our sports.

Here's the fastest way to so smokeless with your Handi:
http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/

OR if you have a .45-70 contact Slufoot:
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless

"This is another divide and conquer thing. Or to paraphrase Franklin, hang together or hang separately. I wish shooters and hunters would work together to create synergy for preserving our sports."
It is not a divide and conquer thing. It is pretty much a delineation of education, experience and ignorance. The latter is not a sin and can be rectified by the former.
There are several examples to be found within this thread. One illustration is the wee group at 100 yards and a claim of lethality at 300. Perhaps. If one knows the drop and windage for a relatively low BC bullet, since that is what inlines shoot for the most part. Reality is, IMO, there isn't great advantage to be found in ballistic performance from inline platforms. There is a question of safety concerning the use of smokeless powder in the Savage and certainly by manufacturer cautions on virtually all others. If one eschews smokeless powder the benefit, if any, evaporates.

The debate about cleaning is pointless. There is no propellant on the market which allows one to ignore cleaning and general maintenance. There is no argument in support of a particular propellant's superiority which is credible. They all have baggage.

i used to see it something like that . But more and more Im see it as a liberal intrusion


thats not going to happen until such time as we understand the differences between our disciplines.
Stop trying to find ways to take advantage and wiggle out acceptances . Actually start fighting to preserve those differences even when that preservation means we get excluded .