Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game My poaching problem may be at an end!!!

My family and I own 500 acres by the Red River on the Oklahoma side. The area is about 1 mile from the river itself. There are watermellon patches and heavy cover all over the place, as well as 2 ponds. We have had trouble keeping people off the place for about 6 years now because we live 4 hours away. My father and I decided it would be a good idea if we got in good with the game warden. We let him hunt and fish in turn for keeping people off. Last year during deer season he caught 3 people with 3 deer, a pile of quail, and a lot of doves. Now get this, today he was out and he found that someone had come in across a pasture that isn't ours. They parked their truck in front of out NO HUNTING/FISHING sign and crossed the fence to hit our big pond. Well he went down to investigate and there the guy was fishing by one of the other signs. The warded made him quit fishing and called my uncle to see what he wanted to do. The story sounded normal until the warden said that the guy was a PREACHER. My uncle didn't want to file charges on a preacher but the warden made the point that he didn't have any more right than anyone else, especially since he didn't have a fishing liscense. So my uncle agreed. Now we have a case. We wouldn't mind people fishing, but they change their oil on the ground and work on their cars by the pond, steal our stuff, and cut the fences. Also we own part of the Chisolm Trail and there is a place that you can see the old wagon ruts in the sandstone, and where people have carved their names and dates from the 1800's. They have even broken those off and stolen some of them. What would you fellas do in a situation like this. We are kind of dumbfounded. We are doing what we can but we are about at our wits end. Thanks for reading, I know it was long but it seemed kind of ironic to me. Ryan

I'd protect what was rightly mine,by all means available to me..............
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Of course I don't know your whole situation, but you are basically encouraging the problem if you are not pressing charges against those caught.
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<br>Think about it, people are whispering that you EVEN pressed charges on the preacher! Do you think that they would have any doubt that you subsequently will press charges against them if they're caught??? Now think of the reverse -- "awe he let the preacher off, he's a softie. Let's poach!"
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<br>Frankly, a preacher "should" be holding himself to a higher standard than trespassing and fishing without a license. These guys are supposed to be pillars of the community. I'd nail his a$$.

Sounds like you guys are thinking the same way that I always have. It's time to hang them out to dry. Ryan

Had a rental house in Washington state from my college days and only sold it a few years back. Had a string of good and bad renters. I could speak of college girls being the worst because of a number of problems, or college guys because of a number of problems, or any number of groups, but... in the end I only got shafted on rent by 4 people total in many years. Half of them were preachers, the only 2 preachers I ever rented to.
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<br>The cloth does not make them pure or virtuous, they must be that way already. I second the opinion of hanging to the full extent of the law......... and whatever you do, do not apologize.
<br>art

rlb I have or used to have poaching/trespass problems just like yours. Don't have any secnic attractions but do have good hunting and fishing. Trespassers find out. I have stuck a few. A word of caution, you said that you don't live on the place and that makes it tough. I do live on mine and you need to be careful who you stick. If they are true outlaws and locals you might just make them mad. Burn you out, cut fences, shoot stock, poison your fishing holes, shoot the radiators on your equipment, stuff like that. That can be solved too but is more difficult. I have done it in more than one case and have little problem now. Also a couple of deputy sherrifs kind of keep an eye out on the area for me in exchange for certain perks. If you are going to stick somebody for trespass find out from the law boys what they know about the individual if they are local. It could cost you more than the fine is worth to you.
<br>BCR

We have a similar problem here with the exception we are closer and have a nosey neighbor with our phone number. We prosecute ALL WHO DARE and have had few problems for quite awhile now that the word is out.
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<br>Oh yeah! couple of commercial fishermen were cast netting (illegal in Florida except for bait) a few weeks ago and we caught em, GFC arrested them and confiscated ALL there equipment including their truck. That made the local paper, I think we will be in good shape for a while now and the Nile Pearch in the ponds are good eating.

Glad to hear that your problem is coming to an end.
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<br>As a minister myself, I am saddened to hear that it was a minister that was trespassing, and fishing without a license. What is most dis-heartening to me is that this is not the first time I have heard of this sort of activity from a minister.
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<br>The Bible teaches us to obey the laws of the land. That includes Fish & game laws. Un-fortunately some feel they are above the law regardless of their vocation. It is unfortunate that a minister is in this category. Any person that is caught trespassing, and fishing without a license should be ticketed regardless of their vocation.
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<br>Ministers that do these types of things not only bring shame on themselves, but on all ministers in general. When one minister sin's, it makes people look at all ministers in a different light.
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<br>Hopefully, these situations are the exception rather than the rule.
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<br>Good hunting.
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<br>Mark
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I have had problems with poachers on a 5 acre tract of swamp land I own. I have never minded that folks would hunt or fish on my land so long as they left things the way they found them. Two years ago a neighboring property owner decided to log his land, as is his to do. how ever he came on to my land and took all all the ceder trees with in a 100 feet of the edge of the water. He was 150 feet over the property line. The line was flagged and surveyed. This guy is a logger and a greedy one at that. He stole several thousand dollars worth of prime red cedar, a part of my retirement fund, destroyed the ground with his skidder as he logged in the wet season turning the soil to mush. and he created a road to haul out the trees which now leaves me with an easy access to the swamp(pond) as well as every one else. I gated the road but the gate has been destroyed a couple times. The local slobs dump their garbage at the end of the road so now I have bulldozed the road so not even a motorcycle can use it. The logger has tried to pay me off at half the value of the trees he took, he has made threats towards me if I continue my law suit, the judge took these threats in to consideration when we first went to court.
<br>I know i will not get much if any thing from this clown my lawyer will make out. I want an example made of this poacher I want to see him lose his business, his equipment and his home if possible. In the end I might get $5000.00 for $50,000 worth of timber. The land will no longer be usable to build a home on as it will no longer support a septic system.
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<br>Bullwnkl.

That is a rotten shame Winky. Wish I didn't live so far away or I'd help you extract a pound of flesh.
<br>BCR

Bullwinkl,
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<br>Here's hoping you nail his balls on the wall...

Winkl,
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<br>I'lll ask some questions and try to get some answers. If a man could simply roam around in his skidder,peelin' trees as he saw fit and paying back but $1 for every $10 taken,there'd be a whole damn bunch of competition in that racket.
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<br>Legalese isn't my longsuit,but I'm thinkin' you'll fair much better than youe related. At least I damn sure hope................

Bullwinkle,the real sad part is nothing can be done to restore the beauty of the place.I vote hanging by the unconventional method.He wasn't preacher too,by any chance ?

In the "Good Old Days",such things were solved with but a simple word....
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<br>"DRAW"!................

Here's some advice. Make sure all the local newspapers print articles on any unlawful violations and convictions which occur on your ranch. Word will spread like wildfire especially if the Judge is hard on 'em. Most people don't cater to being branded a poacher! Hope this helps, MtnHtr

Stick I will be lucky to get much if anything from this guy. He can file bankrupcy, start a new company under some other name and skate away. He has done it before. The lawyer will get his and I get stumps. The ground is ruined for septic site, the only dry place on the five acres was torn up so bad that there is no permiable soil left. Granted I got this land at a bargin some 20 years ago. but It has value, the trees alone were worth an estimated 50K. In ten years that would have doubled as old groth red cedar gets more scarce. The one building site overlooking the pond is now a clearcut. Tripple stumpage is the usual damage award, so now I have to hire a forestery consultant to cruise the site and come up with a estimate of board feet lost. And of course who can forsee the market ten years from now. This clown says it will be way down due to Russian timber imports. Wow what a streach. His cruiser said the trees were not as big as I said they were due to the butt swell, makes the diameter at the base large but the upper two logs might be smaller. Nonsence. There are a couple trees they did not get and the swell on them is about the same as other Western red cedar from around here. I now have dueling cruisers, his and mine. So I ask for the log tickets from where he sold the logs...none to be found, and the so called buyer is long gone. Pretty convieniant. So now my plan is to try to recoup some losses and donate the land to the county and take a tax break. The county is not interested at this time. They might get it for taxes if this goes on too long. Enough rant think I'll go clean a gun.
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<br>Not all was bad today went to an Air show of old war birds in Olympia and took a ride in a P-51 Mustang, fathers day present from the wife mate. Way Cool.
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<br>Bullwnkl.

Bullwnkl,
<br>I know enough about the law to know that he also has to re-emburse you your lawyers fees.And NO,if a judge rules in your favor,he cannot skip out on paying.The state will pay you his fine,and then they'll seize ALL of his property and sell it at auction.Hell,they even do that in small claims court.This isn't commonly known,but it is VERY commonly done.
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<br>I can't see how he can even argue in court.He came on your land,without your permission,and stole your trees.Hell,if he broke in to your house and stole $50,000 worth of diamonds,he'd be UNDER the jail right now.And no lawyer would be saying that your diamonds ain't worth $50K,because he stole the darn things.
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<br>Big Stick,in the old days you wouldn't give a guy like this a chance to draw.You'ld shoot the dirty SOB and leave him lay in the street.
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<br>This REALLY chaps my hide.You take one step out of line and the cops will bust your butt,BUT if you go and steal $50K worth of trees,you can tie it up in court and not have to pay a dime back.

Winkl,
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<br>I sit here with balled fists,veins in my neck like rope and workin' on a pretty good mad in general.
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<br>Pard,you NEED a good man on your behalf,that understands such doin's(and screwin's). I know you know this.
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<br>I see multiple angles of "legalese" and believe me,I'm convinced Lawyers are the lowest form of life,but are sometimes begrudgingly mandatory. If you are a Lawyer,go ahead and be pizzed,I can take it(grin).
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<br>You have the obvious stumpage/theft issue. Then there is soil damage and lastly aesthetics. None can be viewed as "improvements",by even the most nitwitted,of feeble minded idiots.
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<br>Certainly the timber market is fickle,in that it is a commodity. However,I'd side that your intent was to camp on your revenues,until the berries were ripe for pluckin'. That is a subjective issue,that should leave you some legal latitude,regarding stumpage price.
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<br>Now I am CERTAINLY dumb,though I'll refrain from sayin' I'm stupid. You've a real leg to stand on,it's just a matter of finding a man who savvies such Crooks and Schemes and has the depth to cover your needs.
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<br>A BUREAU scaler,is just that. He is an impartial party(more or less),he's a God,in those circles. I doubt you'd find two that were at 180 degree opposites,regarding your fix. Most would opine that you were HOSED and offer such information,to substantiate those conclusions.(That garnered solely from my dealing with such folks).
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<br>Though I am a P-51 fan of the HIGHEST order(as mentioned,by me, on this Forum numerous times)I'd still be keepin' my nose to the wind. And lookin' especially hard for a Hangin' Tree. To cut to the chase,I'd not contemplate giving up the fight.
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<br>You need yourself a meat and tater's man,that understands such matters. My apologies,if I overstepped the bounds of "helpfulness". Rest assured,the ball is in your court(and you ARE serving).............

Big Stick,
<br>Hows bout you and me just go and get this guy and give him a history lesson?We'll take turns shooting Coke cans off his head with my 378.For those of you who don't know,this not only makes one open there mouth (and their lower intestine),but it also hurts like hell from the hydrolic downward pressure.Appels are even better for this.
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<br>Heck Stick,after we did that we'd drive him to Mississipi and have the Doo-Dah ugly him to death.Naw,that's too cruel.Just have the Doo-Dah stare him in the eye for bout 10 seconds,and that'd be more cruelty than the guy diserves.

I am an attorney, licensed in Washington, and have done several timber trespass cases. Washington has a timber trespass statute that requires the defendant to pay three times the actual value of the timber taken. (See Revised Code of Washington 64.12.030).
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<br>I debated whether to rant about people who belittle the chosen professions of others and have decided against it. Happy Father's Day all.