Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Lance Armstrong...

Well you're not fooling anyone I cycle and most of them embarass the hell out of me. They run red lights and stop signs. They have to ride two and three abreast they can't keep their ass in the bike lanes we've paid for. But say this flash is for your ass don't forget it.

Just because Armstrong is, IMO, a grade A, blue ribbon, take him to the county fair, A-hole, does not make this whole process right. I'm not seeing much due process, just a lot of accusin and intimidation, prolly deserved, but not right.

Why go after Armstrong now?

1. The $4.5 million that were paid to him for winning his 5th, 6th and 7th titles. It is clear now that he won those titles by cheating. The payments were not prize money from the race but payments from an insurance company who had insured the bonuses. Armstrong won and claimed those bonuses using fraudulent means. The company, SCA can now go after Lance to get their money back.

2. He doesn't deserve the titles. While you may argue that the "playing field was level" it just wasn't true. The list of Armstrong's main challengers who were doping like he was (doing the exact same stuff) but were caught and suspended is long. Panatani, Zulle, Ullrich, Baso, Mayo, Hamilton, Landis and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Lance should have been caught and suspended too, but he was tight with the president of UCI and then there is the matter of his "donations".


You are confusing the anti-doping agencies with professional cycling. Professional cycling (the UCI) come off looking horrible in this and I'm sure they wish the evidence against Armstrong never came out. They only agreed to strip Lance of his titles after the evidence became overwhelming. Yes, Armstrong brought cycling to America but now cycling is in shambles. It was all a fraud. If I were in charge I would erase all of the results from the grand tours from '94 on and start over with a serious anti-doping program and do it the right way.

Helluva bicycle motor...enhanced or otherwise. The other cheaters couldn't beat him 7 times.

See, this is the point.

Read the following link. How many of the Top 10 guys doped? Looks like all to me pretty much.

How many had to cough up prize money YEARS after the fact? This is payback. they all doped, Armstrong won. Same as Bodybuilding back in the '70's. They all took Dianabol, Arnold was the biggest. Armstrong was the fastest. You can strip him, but what's the point?

Seriously, take a look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#1998_Tour_de_France

WGAF, Lance is a dick head

Armstong ran a coordinated, sophisticated drug doping enterprise; he SHOULD be striped of all the wins, and the money.

This wasn't just one guy, but a sophisticated enterprise.

me. I want all DHs to be legally proven DHs, for all time.


An, ya never know when you're gunna be public's next DH on the choppin block.

;-{>8

True that!

Damn. Whether it's Lance Armstrong or Larry Weishuhn.....lots of folks here are supercritical of them. Armstrong has done LOTS of good for lots of people dealing with an awful illness. And he's helpred raise hundreds of millions of dollars to fight that illness. He's been called CancerJesus here! Weishuhn gets to hunt for a living, all over the place...and write about it. He's a decent guy...who shoots an ugly gun. So what?

....among human beings jealousy ranks distinctly as a weakness; a trademark of small minds; a property of all small minds, yet a property which even the smallest is ashamed of; and when accused of its possession will lyingly deny it and resent the accusation as an insult. - Mark Twain

The point you are missing is that when all of those guys tested positive they were suspended. For all of them, it was disruptive to their careers. Some never came back. Some came back but couldn't ride at the same level. That is to be expected. But when Armstrong tested positive, nothing. It all went away. It is much easier to win TdFs when your competition is serving a suspension.

Prize money? I hadn't read that the UCI was asking Lance for any money back. Do you have a link to that?

A common theme here seems to be that this is a witch hunt orchestrated by some vengeful, jealous Europeans. But the Europeans aren't doing anything to Lance that they haven't already done to their own. Heck, during the Festina affair the French hauled their own athletes off to jail and locked them up.

I've never read that Armstrong was EVER tested and found to be on drugs. Ever.

Anybody know if he was EVER tested and found to be drugs? Anybody? Ever? I mean, I really want to know cause all I have heard is a bunch of unproven accusations against him. Sounds more like sour grapes than anything else.

The Wall Street Journal's last-minute ideas for Halloween costumes:



The USPS Cycling Team

How do you hit up the most houses in the shortest amount of time? Don't be naive enough to think a sugar rush is enough. Like disgraced Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong and his posse of admitted blood dopers, you need a full entourage if you want to snatch the most candy by any means necessary. Start with a bike, a yellow jersey, a couple of friends in blue to play domestiques, and don't forget your doctor. For the perfect finishing touch, just add pretend blood bags and use red magic marker to achieve that perfect shade of crimson. If anyone asks you what you're on, you can reply with indignation, "I'm on my Radio Flyer, busting my ass."



I've never read that OJ was EVER caught killing Ron and Nicole?

Is that proof he didn't do it?

Gun_Geezer,

I agree. As far as I'm concerned he is still the winner. I mean how many times does a guy have to be tested "clean" before they give up? What we have here is a bunch of sore losers.

It's mind boggling enough to see how folks can't imagine how the wonderful "test" just wasn't good enough to catch the cheaters.

But when you consider what level and scope of conspiracy would be necessary to manufacture all the "false" evidence against the "innocent" Lance you just have to shake your head.

Throw into the mix the fact that the biggest sporting event those filthy conniving Frenchies have is now basically ruined, but they supposedly are the rats behind the whole witch hunt. "Oui oui, let's burn our country down to get that cocky American."

I honestly don't care either way, I wish he could prove himself clean, it's just scary watching people argue Lance's side of it.

Which celebrity will 'burn' on bonfire night?

The Edenbridge Bonfire Society has revealed which celebrity will grace the top of their biggest bonfire on Guy Fawkes night.

The effigy stands around 30 feet high and is packed full of fireworks to ensure he/she goes up with a bang.

The burning of the celebrity forms the end of an evening of events which attracts thousands of people to the small Kentish town.

Clues

Very well known
An international celebrity
Adored by many
Notorious for putting (his/her) foot in it rather too often


This year's effigy was chosen after he was stripped of all of his Tour de France titles following an extensive investigation into drug taking.



Lance Armstrong 2012 Credit: ITV Meridian

It's hard for me to understand the public's issues with ped use in professional sports.

It is pretty common and has been for a long long long time. Its just the way it is. I dont have any issue with it.

To make the guys that get caught out to be the bad guys is pretty silly considering what percentage of athletes use them.

Opinion: Armstrong case provides a window into our collective morality

By Dr. Phil Skiba
Published Nov. 2, 2012

�This is my body, and I can do whatever I want to it. [�] What am I on? I�m on my bike busting my ass six hours a day. What are you on?� � Lance Armstrong, from a 2001 Nike commercial

The above quote seems equally prophetic and disingenuous in light of recent events. The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) has revealed over 1000 pages of documentation in support of a single conclusion: Lance Armstrong achieved his near-superhuman results through a combination of performance-enhancing drugs and blood transfusions. He was the de facto ringleader of a breathtaking fraud. Despite this, I find myself answering a single question with alarming frequency: �Who cares?�

People who seek to minimize Armstrong�s transgressions often reference the doping present in other sports. They may point to Marion Jones or some similar story as evidence that doping is simply endemic to elite competition. Aside from the fact that it is ridiculous to excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior, there is an important difference in the present case. We find it somehow more offensive than what has come before. I�ve puzzled over that fact for some weeks now, and I believe I understand why that is. I will begin my explanation with another Armstrong quote:

�Finally, the last thing I�ll say to the people who don�t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics: I�m sorry for you. I�m sorry that you can�t dream big. I�m sorry you don�t believe in miracles.� � Lance Armstrong, 2005 Tour de France victory speech

Armstrong sold an intangible product coveted by all fair-minded people: the idea that clean living and a supreme work ethic are rewarded. He offered the belief that despite impossible odds, we can triumph over the insurmountable through the force of human will.

As a cancer survivor and as a physician, I wanted to believe in the Lance mythos more than anyone. I have used his example to help motivate my sickest patients for more than a decade. I am deeply disappointed at the way Armstrong provided false hope to desperate, vulnerable people, and then used them as his most ardent supporters. He sought veneration and financial gain in the hearts of people with catastrophic illness in the most craven way. This is the first reason you should care; Armstrong fed his own worst demons with our best angels.

The survivor community will recover from this blow. We will find hope in our families, in each other and in our doctors, as we should. Our society as a whole has something a bit more insidious to address, and this may represent a more important reason you should care. Armstrong has demonstrated that you can lie, cheat, bully, damage the personal and professional reputation of others, traffic in and use drugs, pressure others to traffic in and use drugs, and still come out a �winner� financially, professionally, and socially. He has reinforced the suspicion that has gone through the mind of anyone who has ever sat through an algebra test and noticed another kid using a crib sheet: Playing fair is for suckers.

You may believe that Armstrong�s sanction from USADA obviates this last point. You are wrong. Lance Armstrong Inc. is doing just fine. Nike, along with his other sponsors, have distanced themselves from him but are standing behind the LiveStrong brand. Celebrities continue to turn up at LiveStrong events. A bill has been proffered in Congress to defang the organization that caught him.

Rather than abiding by the reasoned decision of USADA, sporting events have given up the sanctioning of USA Triathlon so that Lance Armstrong was able to race. Allow that to sink in for a moment. Race organizations have actually turned their backs on anti-doping rules for the purposes of bringing the worst cheater in the history of sport to their events.

Simply put, the Armstrong case may be symbolic of a decline in our popular morality, which worships celebrity above fair play, hard work and decent behavior. It is also a window into how far the �win at all costs� mentality has contaminated our collective psyche.

Lance Armstrong has set, and continues to set, a very bad example, and in so doing works against what I do as a physician, teacher and professional sports consultant every single day. Unless we demand better, we risk continuing down a very cynical path. This is the final reason you should care. There will always be real heroes and false champions: it is for our collective good that we must elevate the former and demote the latter.

Dr. Skiba is the program director for Sport and Exercise Medicine at the University of Exeter, and is the incoming program director for Sports Medicine at Lutheran General Hospital, Park Ridge, IL. Dr. Skiba has trained a number of elite endurance athletes, including two world champions.

He used to just spank you as a junior, didn't he. Or was it that he stole your bike-Betty back in the day?

Good read. Dr. Skiba makes his points very effectively.