Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Hornady GMX bullet

Those are some fast deer!

Bob

Sako75 thanks for the great link! GRF

Sako75 as others have said....thank you...I'm going to stick with my 140 TTSX in my 7mag as you probably could guess as to why...

SAKO;
I felt that overall it was a very thorough test.

Especially interesting to me was the fact that they used several different methods to show the different aspects of bullet performance. Some of them such as the rain barrel were new to me and indeed would be educational I'd think.

The only question I have with this or some other bullet tests I've read is when the testers use reduced loads to duplicate what happens at extended ranges.

My reasoning for that is as follows and hopefully I can articulate it in an efficient manner.

Once upon a time a couple decades back, we loaded 165gr Hornady BT bullets up in my wife's .308 carbine at 2600fps, an '06 I had then at 2850fps and a pair of .308 Normas and a .300 Win Mag at 3150fps. Please note the speeds were averages more or less and ranges at which animals were shot were estimates measured only by how long it took to make our way across the mountain over to the dead buck.

So we went out and shot a few mulie and whitetail bucks with them to see what we could see. I should note as well that we cut and wrap our own meat and in so doing perform a de facto necropsy more or less.

Based upon the tissue damage we saw on those bucks I'd say that overall the bullets that had a faster muzzle velocity did more tissue damage at extended range than bullets that started slower.

Now to be sure it wasn't as much difference as I'd expected to see, but I did feel that the bullets with a faster initial velocity created more tissue damage when the impact velocities would have been close to the same.

As all the bucks were killed - by one bullet in all cases I should add - in all likelihood the point is close to moot.

I need to say too that using a bullet of different construction might have entirely different results, but when I read any bullet test that uses reduced initial velocity to try to duplicate impact at extended ranges that question always pops into my mind.

Hopefully that explanation made some sense?

All the best to you and yours again sir.

Dwayne

Dwayne,

Even though bullets impact at the same velocity, the one that starts out faster has a higher rotational velocity, and is still spinning nearly as fast as at the muzzle when it hits, which helps the bullet to come apart a bit easier, even when it strikes at a reduced velocity.

Take care!

Jordan

It's an interesting study. I'm not sold on a couple of things however. It doesn't show what happens when speeds began to drop. Metal does not imitate real-world hunting bullet applications at all, and water jugs, though fun - and open the monolithics reliably and perfectly, don't demonstrate very accurately what bi-metallic bullets do in hunting situations, therefore aren't very applicable for comparisons.

If all my shots were inside of 100 yards or my rifles fired bullets at between 4000-5000 fps I would not be concerned with these monolithics working well at the distances I've used them in hunting.

My impression of the GMX is that it is the hardest of the four commonly available component monolithics we can presently obtain. Of them, the TTSX seems to act the softest and may be the best bet for lower speed impacts. Kudos to Barnes for working toward that end.

Monolithics have obviously had some serious hurdles to overcome in their development. The TSX did an outstanding job of overcoming some of the fouling accuracy problems encountered with the earlier XFBs. What they didn't do, in my estimation, was improve in reliability of performance nor did they open better. In fact, in attempting to overcome some of the ballistic deficiencies of the less dense copper materials, the frontal portions of the bullets were streamlined which also affected the resulting (diminished) shape and area of the mushroomed bullet. But the TTSX, perhaps not quite the finished product, is very close to what is needed in a monolithic for 'all-purpose' applications.

I have no issue at all with the use of monolithics on heavier animals (like moose) at reasonable distances and speeds. I do have some concerns with lighter animals such as caribou or deer, but I have always had acceptable results when placing the bullets into significant bone structures, as long as the bullet had adequate momentum.

I agree on your thoughts with mono's.....

At 308win speeds I wouldn't shoot deer at any range longer than 300 yards and would feel much more confident shooting a 168 ballistic tip at 275 plus..... Even though I start my 130 ttsx above 3000 I just don't feel like It would work as well on thin skinned game at long distance or any game really....

Where they shine in my 308 is up close to mid range... 0-200 yards and hitting the shoulders when possible. My ttsx formula is highest speeds plus bone equals success. I know any animal in the lower 48 would struggle with 130ttsx launched at 3000+ inside of 250 yards....

The article me shows that the TTSX opens quicker to a larger diameter than the GMX which I want on thin skinned game


I actually am intrigued by the 110 TTSX flat base in 308 launched at 3300-3400

It also makes me wonder what the 110 TTSX would do out of a 7mag, but will the accuracy suffer???

Jordan,

Interesting observations. I used hide, water, and fresh bones for my test. If I understand you correctly, because of the reduced rotational speed, my 2000 fps velocity impact test actually produces less damage than a full velocity load would at the range I am simulating with the reduced velocity.

That would be another reason to get a 1 in 8 or faster twist .22, 6mm, or 6.5mm. Thanks! I can always use another reason to get a different rifle.

My friends and I have had no problem with the monmetal bullets on light game like antelope. However, I don't shoot to very long distances (400m+) like some can and do on a regular basis.

Jordan;
Thanks for the reply Jordan, I trust that this finds you and your fine family doing well on this grey Sunday afternoon.

I'd have to admit that rotational speed of the projectile was the only variable I could come up with as well.

Now I'm aware that there are arguments that it can't make much difference, but I do know what we saw as a trend on several animals.

In the same vein then, taking in to account initial rotational bullet speed involved, it would explain how we've seen about equal tissue damage between our daughter's 6.5 Swede and an '06 that I used for years.

For the record that was on bucks only, both whitetail and mulie and the respective projectiles/speeds involved were 120gr2800fps and 140gr2650fps in the Swede and 165gr2850fps and 180gr2800fps in the '06.

As a by the way, we've yet to stop a 130gr TSX out of her Swede and the tissue damage that it produces has been adequate to say the least.

Anyway Jordan for what it is or isn't worth that's what I came up with too on the tissue damage subject.

We won't even begin to talk about how little tissue damage difference there was on mulie bucks or black bears comparing the .338Win and the '06...

All the best to you and yours in the upcoming week Jordan.

Dwayne

Phasmid;
I hope this finds you well today sir and to be clear here I'm not Jordan - I'm shorter, older and have way less hair - and I believe Jordan has seen more stuff die than I have.

That said and for what my thoughts might be worth, I'd suggest that the results of an initially reduced muzzle velocity would indeed produce less damage.

I'd have to look at our hunting records, but that's based on cutting up at least a dozen or more deer shot in our 165gr Hornady BT testing.

We've had no issues with monometal bullets opening up as yet either, but like you our ranges haven't even reached 400yds(estimated/paced - not measured).

Hopefully that was some use to you or someone out there this afternoon.

All the best to you sir and good luck on your upcoming hunts this fall.

Regards,
Dwayne

Phasmid,

Yup, you got it.

You're welcome! Let me know which new rifle you end up buying to test this out in more detail!


Dwayne,

Yessir, that's totally consistent with what I've seen, too. In addition to seeing big things die, if a guy spends some time shooting varmints like gophers or woodchucks with two rifles chambered in the same cartridge, but with significantly different twist rates, and fed the same load, you can really start to tell the difference that rotational velocity makes when it comes to the "red goo" factor.

heres 3 different 130 ttsx exits on deer from my 308 for comparison.....

Great stuff everyone. Is it me or is Federal discontinuing the Barnes bullets from their factory loaded rifle ammunition?

Thank you

130gr GMX out of 270WSM.

Thanks for the kind words regarding my daughter and her buck.

It's hard to describe how much I am enjoying hunting with my children!

Thanks also for the link to the study. It was very interesting.

Perhaps the 6 petal mushroom gives the GMX a little better expansion at times, but it sure looks like the TTSX expands in a dramatically superior manner at low speeds and on soft targets.

Interesting stuff.

DJ

Accurate, no doubt...

Wife used 100gr nbt's last year. For the heck of it I think we will try the 90gr gmx this time. No problems at all with the nbt though. Hers shoots both well.

Yes, Federal is discontinuing factory loaded ammo with Barnes bullets - so I was told by the ATK/Federal rep.

With Barnes now loading and marketing their own ammo, the agreement between the two, with Barnes supplying bullets to Federal was terminated.

Federal will be loading the Trophy Bonded bullets in lieu of Barnes.

FWIW, I've shot the Barnes 300WSM 168 TSX loading and the Federal 300 WSM Barnes TSX loading. Not a nickels worth of difference in velocity between the two over my chrono. Accuracy and POI was almost identical as well. Makes one wonder if Federal is now doing the loading for Barnes. ? ? ? ?

Crazyis,
Why would you want to switch from a bullet that you know works for you? I could see if you are a handloader because we are always tinkering, according to your post you are shooting factory loads. I have no personal expierence with the GMX but have not found anything that will shoot as good in my rifles with the performance to boot as the TTSX. Good luck with your decision.