Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Are Hornady A-Max Bullets any good for Deer???

Just wondering as I have some 6.5 120`s I bought when I could not get Nozler 120`s at the time.Thanks ahead, Huntz

Hornady used to recommend the A-max as a target/deer bullet. I recently looked at some Hornady material and they were no longer recomended for deer. Some folks have used them and like them, and some have used them and hated them. So I don't really know what to tell you.

I have used the 155 .308 AMAX on deer and it worked just fine.

I am in the process of getting a 6.5 Creedmoor up and running with the 120 AMAX and I will glady whack a deer with it.

used 75 amax otu of 223 a few times with no flies on it.

never seen one make a deer's day better....

FWIW, in the Amax, MY fav is the 140gr in 6.5, the 120/123s may be all the more explosive, higher speed, less lead...

I dropped a buck at 400 yds w/a 105 from a 6BR.

The 123s have been doing deer well from slower rounds like a 6.5 Grendel.

What round you using/how fast are you pushing it, and what is your average shot distance?

I am using a 6.5X55 in a Ruger 77.The spot where I am going to hunt this year will give me shots from a few yards to about 250.

one of my elk hunting partners has killed 8 bulls with the 208gr A-max out of his 30-338, he loves that bullet. With all the great bullets out there I'm not about to hunt critters with anything that might be suspect. while they might work fine, why hunt big game with a bullet that was designed for targets or for that matter a Varmint bullet.I load some A-max's,Bergers, and even some SMK's but they are for long range rock shooting not hunting.

The 308 - 168 Amaxes work well on deer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDlv2ODrVk8&feature=plcp

At 250 yds max range there is zero reason to need the extra BC of the AMAX. The 129 gr. Hornady Interlock would be a great choice for your needs.

I'm going to use the 140 A-Max on deer this year. Don't see how any deer would object from one through the lungs or shoulders.

I realize that,but I have the A-Max`s on hand and they shoot very good in my Rifle.There is no where within 100 miles up here where you can purchase reloading components.I will also carry my BFR 475 and if the deer are within 100 yds plan to use that.

If you have them and are comfortable with the accuracy, shoot deer with them.
I did, no problems at all.
Jim
PS 140 A Max out of a 264 WM @ 285 yards. Neck shot. DRT.

A- Max's are not Matchkings. They are a lead cored, plastic tip bullet. They are in every way, shape, and form a hunting bullet. They are thin jacketed and so are best in heavy for caliber weights IME, but a 120gr in 6.5mm wouldn't scare me in the least. Just know the bullets performance and use it to your advantage.

I'd avoid shoulder bone with the 120s, but wouldn't leave them at home.

well damn matchking arent lead cored ?

Anything that puts a hole through the heart or lungs will kill anything, even a FMJ, arrow, spear or knife. I've had no problem getting MOA or even in many cases, half-MOA, with hunting bullets from my rifles so I see no need to worry about using a match bullet. Just my opinion and you are welcome to yours.

well hell I accually agree with a guy from calif.

If A-maxes are good why are Ballistic tips, SST's, and Accubonds thought of in such poor light? Ain't they all lead core plactic tipped bullets?

Well, they're not thought of in poor light by everybody, or they wouldn't sell any...

Hit a little meat buck [7pt IIRC] on a bet at a touch over 500 yards with a 208 gr A-Max from my ole 300 Win Mag, he was DRT with a fist sized exit in the ribs.

Gunner

Matt

You are makin too much sence for an innernet forum

SMK's are an OTM (open tip match) bullet and while I have killed a lot of deer with them, and would again, they are a bit inconsistent in tissue. A-Max's on the other hand are phenomenal medium game bullets if you desire quick expansion and are very consistent in performance.


For someone to say that A-Max's are "match" bullets and are not "hunting" bullets is just willful ignorance or downright BS. They are constructed identically, if not softer, than quite a few "hunting" bullets. One could say that they do not care for the tissue damage that A-Max's produce and that would be understandable.

My first gen Rem Ti .308 loves the 168 grain A-Max and it worked well on my first antelope that I shot facing me at 400ish yards. He was running away and stopped at the top of a rise and it was one of those shoot quick now or he's gone situations. Hit him high and almost beheaded him.



Shoot 'em heavy for caliber at longish ranges in vital areas and they are devestating on game, I believe.

I would lean toward the 140 grain A-Max with the 6.5 myself. I have used the 140 AMax (6.5), 162 AMax (7mm), and 168 AMax (TAP Ammo).
All good results.
308 in action at 350 yards. Don't usually use a 308, but used a friend's MOA Maximum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFaf...orites&list=FLfEoqqK-q7iARmKwk742NZg

If you do go w/120s, I'd avoid shoulders to allow the bullet more chance to penetrate, esp if your shot is close, and your MV high. Again, my 6BR at 2850mv w/105 dropped another deer seconds before the one at 400 yds, it was at 200, I aimed for the spine, the bullet VAPORIZED, all mass was like grains of lead sand, 2" max penetration.

THAT is why I always say no heavy bone w/light amax/high speed/close shots. They will kill, but I'd go lung or neck shots personally, and even killed one w/a head shot at 45 yds....DRT of course.

Nice shot!

Quoted directly from Hornady's web site "A-MAX� NOW featuring AMP� bullet jackets!

Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
�Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
�Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
�These bullets are not recommended for hunting."

A hole in the heart or lungs = dead

Thanks.
I have dropped game from 100 yards to beyond 1K with A-Max's.
So far they have worked for me.

I think what might be happening is that the A max is evolving. I'm not advocating using or not using. I'm just trying to provide info to the general forum here.

um guess the guys making them are ful of BS and ingorant

Before the AMP jacket came out, the A-Max bullet was recommended for small to medium game...

There are reasons that Hornady does not state that A-Max's are for hunting. None of them are because they are unsuitable. The AMP jacketed ones perform exactly like the old ones in tissue.



I will tell you that several of the big wigs at Hornady have and do use them on game. Believe what you want. We have killed hundreds of deer with them. I always find it interesting when those who have zero experience argue with those who are very experienced with something....

very experianced here , seen your website , I will leave it at that while I am LMAO

I'll repeat myself...



I can also tell you there are several coues and antelope that had no idea the AMAX was not recommended for game, and up and f'n died anyway when a 6.5/140 AMAX rapidly and soundly liquefied their innards...

I don't doubt that, and I find them perfectly suitable myself as well, but I'm curious what reasons you might be alluding to? I'm not necessarily saying that the AMP jackets were the cause for removing the recommendation to use the A-Max on game, but simply that the two occurences curiously happened at the same time.

The 168 A-Max is a very good deer and hog bullet
Read this: www.ballisticstudies.com. The knowledge base section.
Real world experience.
I have a buddy that uses the 168A-Max in a Rem LTR and he has made 46-- 1 shot kills on deer and hogs. Largest hog was 546#@ 200yds. Longest shot on a hog was 427yds on a 200+#er.

Coach

Think military and LE.

Ahh...makes sense. Kinda similar to the Sierra Matchkings.

Exactly.

From the Hornady website:



Look, it's a bullet and if you hit a deer with one it probably won't do him any good. But there are LOTS of good bullets that are designed to expand and still hold together for maximum penetration while the A-Max is a target bullet designed to penetrate a piece of paper and may very well blow up when it hits something solid.

Don't do it.

I use the AMAX 168 aund the house to reduce the chances of exit. If your shooting a long way or in an area that you may have to track a deer through brush I would suggest something a bit tougher in construction.
I favor head or neck shots with it. The AMAX frags very quickly. And while it offers devastating energy transfer and killing power placed in the right spot, a shoulder shot on a good sized buck near thickets would ruin your trip.
Trust me. I snuck one just past the shoulder bone and into the lungs on this ole boy and I had fraagment exits. There was a very faint trail and he only traveled 40 yards, but the stuff he went through was thick and i should have, in retrospec, used a heaver constructed bullet.

Hit this little buck at 35 yards in the neck week before last. Bullet is seated to 2.82 in FC brass over 41.5 gr IMR4895 and CCI BR primers. Running 2550 MV from a 20".
As you can see the exit shows the bullet had already come apart in only 5-6 inches of soft tissue. No bone.

NO !

Had a 105'er break both shoulders and exit this morning so I say yep one more time.

Good for you!

The 168 AMAX was the original bullet for the Hornady TAP ammo. I have shot them thru autobody, windshields, body armour and drywall. I assure you. they dont just turn into lead dust when they encounter something harder than paper.
Tissue is mostly water and water is incompressable. Water must be displaced since it is already at its most dense state when in liquid form. A bullet like the AMAX, when striking tissue, will deform quicker...but it doesnt return to it molecular state in the first mm of resistance.
Deer are not that hard to kill.
Skin on the off side being pulled away from tissue has nothing to brace against and is pretty damn tough to penetrate. A bullet that retains enough energy that when deformed will penetrate the offside hide has only left a small portion of its energy inside the animal. I prefer a round to enter and deform quickly, transfering energy to tissue. Not enter and traverse half the animal only to begin expanding 50% of the way through and then use its energy up trying to tear out the offside.
I shoot them BECAUSE they deform and have limited penetration. I want that rapid deformation. Coupled with precise shooting and the ability to relegate shots to the neck, an AMAX is a hard bullet (forgive the negative pun, to beat.
Is it the bullet to use when you shoot for the shoulder? no. but I dont and many shooters dont.

Almost surprising to witness what they really do compared to what you hear sometimes
They do pretty well, don't they?

I load the 168 Amax for a friends 30-06. Scooting along pretty good too @ 2930 fps. He's dumped 3 deer with them and calls me up every time to tell me how happy he is with these bullets. His guide this year was po'd at another guy in camp for using cheap bullets in his 300 RUM. Apparently he made a pretty good mess of a large Muley. I held my breath a little when my friend told me he put a stock on his deer and shot it at 30 yards! His guide told him "thanks for using a bullet that is up to par".

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/6.5x55.html comments on A-Max in the Hand Loading section. Seems to do well.

I was puzzled by Hornady's contradiction: On their website the say that they do not recommend target bullets for hunting, while in their manual they indicate that the AMax is a "capable" game bullet.

I emailed Hornady and got the following response:

You hit the nail directly on the head! Although we do not recommend the Match bullets for hunting we know that many people use them for that with tremendous results. The issue is size of animal and shot placement, an animal shot through the ribs into the lungs will probably give instant response of dropping. However, if shot in the shoulder we know that these bullets may blow up on the outside of the animal and possibly be lost.

Even though the suggestion is indicated that these bullets are appropriate for hunting they are not engineered with any consistent degree of expansion. This is why we do not recommend them as a hunting bullet. Catch22, I suppose it is but I'm just giving you the real life truth that although they may work under perfect conditions we don't suggest you do.

I know a lot of folks use them for hunting with success, and as long as you hit the slats, they will probably work well. I guess I just prefer to use a bullet for the purpose it was designed. There are lots of good hunting bullets on the market which are designed with terminal performance in mind. I prefer a bullet that still works when conditions aren't perfect. YMMV

I think that if I lived in a state that I could hunt with a rifle for a week and had one deer limit I would consider another option.
The reason being that a perfect shot may not be presented and the hunter would have a difficult time passing on a shooter knowing that another shot presentation may not come for the entire season.
BUT, I live in SC. Our deer season last from AUG-JAN. I can take 10 deer legally. If " the shot" doesnt come I will just wait till it does. In 10 min, 10 days, a month...
But each man has to make his on considerations.
But to discard the projectile as ineffective and know fully well that BT bullets have been touted as the greatest deer killers since I-95 seems asanine. I assure you that the AMAX is holds together at least as well and possibly better in the 168 than the Nosler BT does.

Have you tried the 168 Ballistic Tip on game? Check the jacket, it's the bullet next to the right:

ringworm: I understand and agree with your logic as long as you are willing to wait for the right shot. But what happens if the biggest buck you have ever seen just happens to appear quartering away, while you are out culling does? Having a cartridge/bullet combination that will work in unanticipated circumstances may seem asinine to you, but not to others.

But if you are truly willing to pass on such a buck, more power to you.

And I have never used Ballistic Tipson game, but I understand that they have been toughened up in recent years, redesigned for terminal performance. Don't think the same can be said for A Maxes.

Mathman,

Guessing, the red tips are Noz 120/140 7mm BT's and next a 140 AB?

No doubt the jacket is very thick on the 165s, surely more than the 125s I used long ago in a 30/30 TC 10"

As to if an AMAX is right for a hunter - it's all in how you hunt. If you have time in the terrain and can wait for that broadside shot, they can be as deadly as any bullet.

If not, and you want a bullet to punch thru, other bullets are probably better able to go thru more dense mass as needed w/integrity.

A frangible bullet can be completely devastatingly deadly or inhumanely wounding, depending on shot placement, so the user just needs to know to select their shots or hold fire until that shot presents...or not.

I have used 105 Amax in a 6BR, lungs, spine, and head shot. Also the 70 TNT at 3400 and 3500 from 6BR/243 - lungs and necks - all quickly fatal, many DRTs. That said, w/the 105, I would not shoot a shoulder at close range w/a light one. The heavier Amax's IMHO are more forgiving as they start w/more mass....

In summary - they very often work great when placed well, but if you want a bullet to do it all under the most diverse conditions, there are better bullets that allow more latitude in shot placements that will quickly anchor game.

I have used them and likely will again, but under select conditions. Close ranges/high speeds + Bad shot angles are not what you want IME and hunting in heavy brush, if one used say a Barnes, well what you have AFTER going thru something, is much more mass in a bullet built stouter....so IF your bullet stays true and game is not far beyond your obstacle, you may well have a chance at connecting w/deadly results.

Open terrain and longer ranges are ideal for Amax's IMO.

Like JB/Charlie Sisk say, if in doubt, grab partitions and go hunting

A-Max- only good for shooting does. Broadside.

Total distance traveled by those deer= 0 feet.

Having used them all I would rather have a heavy 30cal caliber A-Max for a going away shot on a "trophy" buck than any TSX, GMX, etc.

I think the new Accubond Long Range are going to be a game changer. Finally a bullet with the high BC of a target bullet, but with construction of a hunting bullet.

I think you are right, we are in a 'next Gen' phase of bullets....of course, then again, there is the 'LRX' Lol.

Maybe Nosler will save the best for last:

Poly tipped Bonded Partition VLD as in: PBPT-VLD

I get dibs on royalties

Nice deer above, what cannon, I mean round are you using?

Leme guess...30-06 with 178's?

Sorry I do not buy that. Huge difference in jacket thickness.

So differences in metallurgy such as alloy, temper, etc, won't make a difference in terminal performance?

Nosler lead is soft. Real soft... Hornady, not so much. Just sayin'...

300WinMag with 178's. Extreme tissue damage if large bone is hit.










The 168gr AMAX is significantly "softer" than the 168gr NBT. The 168 A-Max is about perfect for deer out of a 308 IME, however for those desiring more penetration the NBT is a better choice.

with age comes wisdom maybe there is hope for you someday in the future

Regale me with your experiences concerning heavy 30cal A-Max's on deer in direct comparison to TSX's, etc. Please discuss shot distances, relative tissue damage, distance traveled after the hit, and the amount killed with each.


Pics are always appreciated..."

Have shot dozens of deer from 50-450 yards with varias tsx and ttsx from 6mm 85's to 30 cal 168's DRT to ran maybe 30 yards . you are correct i have not shot a deer with a heavy 30cal a max but did so with a 162 from a 7-08 at about 300 yards small deer hit in upper neck about 6 in front of shoulders made a wound about 5in circle and all of about 3-4 in deep. deer did not run but lay there flaing about had to shoot it again, thats all i needed to see for useing a-max,s for hunting. Was this tread about a max's in general ??

So you have shot a total of 1 deer with an A-Max? Who would've thought....


I have seen TSX's that looked like an unpeeled banana after being removed from animals or expansion so minor that it was virtually caliber sized. However having shot significantly more deer with TSX's than you have with A-Max's, and having killed hundreds with A-Max's I am very comfortable with what they do and what to expect.


If I need to turf a deer right here, right now, I do not care about meat loss and I want a bullet that will destroy the most tissue possible. Give me a 300 Mag and 178gr A-Max..

i have shot deer with diff bullets from corelock interlock NBT tsx ttsx sst pro hunter gameking have seen deer shot with a wide varity or other and the worst wound proformance has been the a max and the makers of such dont recomend to do so ? who would have thought ?? and why would i want to shoot more than one deer with a given bullet when the first was a total puck up ??

I'm on board with the A-Max for just about anything that can be punched in the vitals behind the shoulder. If a 140 Berger VLD can do this:



....and a 140gr, 6.5mm A-Max can do this at 758 yards....



I would have no issues with 208's for Elk, Oryx etc...

They also blow up praire dogs really well.

Seems to be a bit of a paradox?

Or just a comment coming from a guy who has never chased a wounded elk 'round the mountains?

Nope. Just what I think from having shot a bunch of PD's out to 600 with the 140 A-Max. They blew the dogs up. That would lead a guy to think the bullet is frangible and blows up. I don't think so from seeing how it performed with perfect entry and exit on an Ibex. Also shot a bedded smallish deer at 200 that had its head curled back resting on its offside. The A-Max entered, passed through the body, entered the side of the head blowing a silver dollar sized hole in it.

The instance of the VLD with the elk, obviously not an A-Max, was just another experience with bullets like the A-Max that have a reputation as being "frangible" that turned out to kill well for me. Many of the competitive shooters I know use them to hunt with and swear by them.

From my experience with them, I would have no qualms using them on other big game

rc have you used the Amax on a lot of elk? Maybe at more moderate distances?

I would put the bullet right behind the first rib and aiming for the offside shoulder.

Quartering towards me, right at the base of the neck.

I don't, not at 36.00/50 <<< guessing though.

Hi Bob, I've never shot an elk with the A-Max, just the Berger VLD.

My comment that I would feel comfortable with the .30 cal 208 gr A-Max for elk was made because of my experience recently with both bullets. I believe the A-Max may be a little tougher, and the 208 should be great. I shoot it in a long range rifle.

The OP's question was if the A-Max was good for deer and I say yes!

rc thanks! They are accurate buggers alright.Load workup was easy for me with 162's.I bet they slam deer sized stuff.

Here is mine out of my 'lope this year.





123 Amp jacket, 200 yds, about 3000fps impact speed.

bellydeep,

MOST (but not all) expanding hunting bullets start to expand immediately on hitting game. This is why the most damage is usually around and just behind the entry hole--and why prairie dogs will splatter when shot with most lead-cored hunting bullets. But it has nothing to do with how deeply the bullet will penetrate.

I've blown up small varmints with bullets a bunch of .25 to .375 caliber "big game" bullets from cartridge from the .257 Roberts to .375 H&H, the bullets including Hornady Interlocks, Nosler Partitions, Winchester Power Points and some others I've probably forgotten. The same bullets also worked just fine on big game.

A-Max bullets are not good for deer and will in fact, make them very ill and ultimately, will kill them. This applies to most projectiles. GD

I'm afraid you've taken the expression "blow up" far more literally than I intended. I didn't mean vaporize or "return to a molecular state", I meant exactly the extremely rapid expansion you've described.

I don't consider a bullet that expands so rapidly that shots have to be confined to the neck an asset. YMMV

LMAO,


There was a time on the fire when it did not matter if you were hunting flies or elephant, shooting a 30 carbine or a 30-378 .You had to have Barnes X bullets or you were considered a fool. Now----------------------


It is the internet!

8mmwapiti

Really?
I guess none of my big game animals ever died quickly.
Nothing larger than bull elk for me though.

Never used a Barnes bullet for any big game.

I am not suggesting everyone should use the A-Max.
It is just one choice among many. We are blessed to have so many good options.

162 Amax shoulder shot with jacket under the skin on the off side. Who would have though it?..............grin

LOL! So true indeed. We had the Barnes rage, 257 Wby rage, 25-284 rage, A-MAX rage(?!), 223AI rage, just to name a few from over the years. What's next?

McMillan rage, .280AI rage, 7WSM rage, 6.5mm rage, Leup 6x42 rage, Sucks 700 rage, etc, etc...

I'm really liking these recovered bullet pics.

The day before I left for my sheep hunt with Ken Waters, I got a sample box of a new cup-and-core bullets from one of the premier bullet-makers. I loaded some and left.

My sheep went down right away. Took only one shot.

When I got home, there was a letter from that bullet-maker � "Don't use those bullets that we just sent you for game."

So was that bullet good for game? What can anybody reasonably conclude from conjecture, only one kill, or the maker's recommendation?

Never, never, never....read the directions first.

I've never shot a deer with A-max bullets but I load them exclusively for use in my Remington 700 Ti in 30-06. I've shot 6 dall sheep and one mountain goat with them with fantastic results....bang- flop. My son has used them to take three Alaskan bull moose with said bullets and I've loaned it to two friends to shoot theirs too, and none of these were meat bulls. Last spring, my son rolled a grizzly with them. To add icing to the cake, I can shoot one inch groups with them at 200 yards. That is a fantastic confidence booster when you're sheep hunting. I suppose that they'd work as well on whitetails too. A-max all the way!

This statement is spot on, if you ask me. Like was said earlier, A-maxes used to be recommended by Hornady for thin skinned game. I think I even have some reloading manuals that state as much. In that capacity, they work right well. Hornady employees will even tell you so.

I consider the 162 A-max to be the best bullet Hornady makes. It is awesome. The 75gr ain't too shabby either.....

The family and I will be running 162s into mule deer and lopes next year, I know that for sure.

Might even try one on one of those big brown elky bastards soon.