Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Shcmidt & Bender thoughts

FOSt: Yes that is a tad short....(sigh).

Funny, my Summit has oodles of eye relief.(Much like a 3-9 Conquest,which is just great that way)..so the company clearly knows how to do it.....I wonder why they don't?

So I take it you don't think that having rain repellent coatings on a hunting scope is important to the other 10 million + hunters that go afield, besides you that is ?

Did you bother to read my post before you commented on it ? What makes you believe that the coatings on Leica and Pentax products is "super hard" ? Leica doesn't offer Rainguard type coatings ? Really ? Ever hear of AquaDura ? Zeiss doesn't either ? Really ? Ever hear of Lotu-Tec ?




I forgot to congratulate you for having the highest post count of false, misleading and baseless information of any Campfire member who ever posted in the Hunting Optics section for 10 years running.

Also I heard an ad for Trigicon claiming the SEALs, and various other military organizations use them.

false, misleading and baseless information = Lies?

Not sure if he offers up lies on purpose or he just enjoys making himself look like a fool.

quote = Terry Cross

I apologize in advance but I have to rant for a second.

I have always been a huge, huge Leupold advocate. They were always my benchmark for quality, innovation and U.S. workmanship. I own an awful lot of their product and continue to use it regularly.

However. . . . In the last few years, I have seen a change in the way Leupold does business and delivers product to the market. As they have grown, they have embraced many less than admirable traits that seem to define too many parts of American businesses. While their pricing has been steadily increasing at a faster rate than inflation, their quality has dropped. They are still capable of producing a sharp, repeatable optic but not as dependably.

My biggest aggravation with Leupold is the fact that less than 5% of their product line that can be legally stamped "Made in U.S.A." and I'm not even sure that those few are !!! What started out with a few of their Wind River imports has blown into an all out effort to prostitute their name brand for a dollar.

I just received 18 RX-4 range finders, 18 Mk4 10x50 Patrol Binoculars and 18 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm TMR Illum. scopes for a package deal I have to ship. This is pretty much suppossed to be their better gear. Guess what? Range finders "Made In CHINA". Binoculars "Made In China". Scopes have no country of origin marked on the packaging, instructions or product. Call back from Leupold informs me that the scopes are assembled in Oregon but so many of the parts and sub-assemblies are made over-seas (mostly China except for some of their lenses)that they do not qualify for the Made in USA stamp!

I can assure you that sourcing their components and products from China has dropped their costs very, very dramatically while they have continued to raise market prices. You know, honestly, it isn't even the price/profit thing that burns me. It is the fact that they chose to move their sourcing and manufacturing (I do consider "manufacturing" and "assembly" two different beasts in this instance) out of the country and specifically China. Why couldn't they keep most of their production here and just up their pricing 10%? Jesus, I could drop my selling price and triple my profit on freakin Pod-Loc kits if I used components from outside the U.S., but I refuse to go there. Guess that is why I still drive a 10 year old truck.

While they may still have satisfactory product performance and at least attempt innovative ideas occaisionally, I believe that they are straying from their roots, pumping a ton of money into foreign factories and putting yet another hole in the bottom of the lifeboat that retains at least a small fraction of our ability to domestically support our police and military logistics in the event of any serious conflict. I remain firmly convinced that we shall sorely curse the day that we wake up and realize that we need to raise our military to a task only to find out we have cut off our own legs. I aim this statement not only at Leupold but other textile, steel, electronics and molding industries based in the U.S. You don't just start that [bleep] back up inside the U.S. borders overnight.

I will continue to use my original Leupold products but I shall migrate away from giving their company blanket support. I will, instead continue to give more and more support to companies that take risks, accept slightly lower margins and consciously make the effort to strengthen our own economy and workforce. As you purchase your gear or spec out the equipment for your agency bids, please consider more than F.O.V. and click value.

I would seriously love to debate the execs at Leupold in front of their Board about some of this.

DISCLAIMER: I know that some out there will have personal budgets at home that restrict your choices to imports and I totally respect that. A non-US product is better than no product at all in some cases.

DISCLAIMER #2: Yeah, that was more than a second. Sorry.

TC





dave

my z6 1.7-10x42 as a ton of eye relief and a very open eye box.... Very easy to get behind

I couldn't use a 10x for most of my hunting.... But that would be my scope out west


Fixed 10x here?

Isn't it ironic most of the "best" stuff comes from the folks that bombed Pearl Harbor, slaughtered millions and cooked Jews? I guess bygones ARE bygones. Some day, we may look on the Chinese with the same fondness we have for the Japanese and German's.

There is nothing "ironic" about that. These people have a deep sense of pride in producing exceptional quality goods. That has been the case since the late 19th Century. Unlike us they don't ship their strategical manufacturing activities to China.
They make certain that the next generation grows into this sophisticated manufacturing culture.
Don't worry. We'll beat the crap out of them (again) if they become too big to their britches.

Schmidt & Bender Wins $34 Million U.S. Military Scope Contract

There are many quality rivals in the high-end tactical optics market, but it appears that Schmidt & Bender remains �top dog�, at least for the U.S. Special Forces community. Schmidt & Bender, was awarded a $34,209,500 firm-fixed-price contract for precision sniper rifle dayscope, mounting rings, spare parts, repairs and upgrades. The scope will be a special version of S&B�s 5-25x56mm PMII. It�s not clear how many scope units are to be delivered under the contract, which had five bidders. The Naval Surface Warfare Center is the contracting activity (N00164-11-D-JQ31), and the contract is expected to be completed by June 2016. The scopes will be built in Biebertal, Germany.
Schmidt & Bender SOCOM 5-25x56 PMII Dayscope

This is a special military version of the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII. It will be provided in two versions, one with click values in centimeters and a Horus reticle, and a second with 1/4 MOA click values and a H2CMR reticle.

[/color]S&B Sniper Rifle Dayscopes to Be Used by Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines
The S&B precision sniper rifle dayscopes will be used by Special Forces for the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps. The precision sniper rifle dayscope consist of several configurations that are required for use on existing and future sniper rifles. The configurations are tailored to the sniper�s training regimen, the weapon system effective range, and the weapon system caliber. The precision sniper rifle dayscope will be used around the world in extreme and adverse conditions including underwater, surf-zone, desert, arctic, jungle and urban environments. One reason S&B PMIIs were selected is this model has passed rigorous immersion testing. The 5-25�56 PM II was certified to show zero leakage after spending 10 hours in sea water at a depth of 25 meters (82 feet).



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Bushnell Wins Military Contract for Compact Elite Spotting Scope

For someone looking for a lightweight, compact, under-$400 spotting scope, we�ve been impressed by the Bushnell Elite 15-45x60mm. This straight-view spotter employs a roof-prism design to achieve high magnification with a short footprint. It is rubber-armored for durability.

Bushnell Elite Spotting Scope

The Elite� 15-45x60mm is just 12.2 inches long and weighs a mere 26.5 ounces. Fogproof, waterproof, and shockproof, the Elite series of spotting scopes (there is also a 20-60x70mm version), also feature Bushnell�s patented Rainguard� lens coating. Field tests have shown that the hydrophobic Rainguard coating really works � condensation from rain, fog or snow forms in much smaller droplets than with standard coatings.

The U.S. military apparently agrees that the 15-35x60mm Elite is a lot of scope for the money. Bushnell Outdoor Products was recently awarded a contract for a special military version of the Elite� 15-45x60mm spotting scopes. The spotting scopes will be used by multi-national forces around the world. Bushnell started shipping the units in late 2008.

Bushnell Elite Spotting Scope

Government buyers were impressed by the performance of the Elite 15-45 in a small, affordable package. The Elite 15-45x60mm is a compact unit that is easy to carry and quickly set up. Bushnell will make some modifications to the spotting scopes to meet military specifications. For more info, visit www.bushnell.com or call 800-423-3537 for consumer inquiries.



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Chantilly, VA �-(AmmoLand.com)- Aimpoint the originator and worldwide leader in electronic red dot sighting technology, has been awarded a new contract from the US Army for supply of up to 565,783 M68 Close Combat Optic rifle sights.

The Aimpoint CompM4s was chosen following an extensive evaluation and competitive trial of available optical sights by the Army s Research & Development Command (ARDEC) at Picatinny Arsenal, NJ.

Aimpoint was the only manufacturer whose product fulfilled the Army s rigorous testing criteria during this evaluation, and is the only manufacturer to be selected as a qualified vendor for this contract.

The sight chosen by the Army, the Aimpoint CompM4s, features a battery compartment positioned near the sight base, which gives the sight a streamlined profile and places the switch and battery in a more protected position. A ruggedized switch knob has been integrated as part of the battery compartment housing and features 7 night vision compatible settings and 9 daylight settings.

The modular QRP2 mount maximizes product application for all M4 Carbines and M16 rifles, and eliminates the need for a separate mounting ring. The electronic components in the CompM4s include the latest ACET diode circuitry, which allows the sight to run continuously for up to 8 years on a single battery, and features an internal voltage regulator that makes it possible to utilize any AA sized battery found worldwide for power. The sight features a 2 minute-of-angle (MOA) dot size, making it perfectly suited for use with Aimpoint s 3X Magnifier (3XMag ), Aimpoint Concealed Engagement Unit (CEU ), and all generations of night vision devices. The CompM4s is designed to function under hard use and extreme environmental conditions.

Aimpoint products are specifically designed to outperform all other alternatives � the troops count on us to be better said Brian Lisankie, President of Aimpoint Inc. Since 1997, Aimpoint has proven itself to be a reliable and trusted supplier to the US Armed Forces, and we are proud to continue our twelve year legacy as the supplier of the M68 Close Combat Optic to the US Army, US Navy, and US Air Force.

Aimpoint is the only manufacturer to be type classified for production of the M68 Close Combat Optic, and has consistently met the Army s stringent requirements for quality control and on-time deliveries. Over 750,000 Aimpoint sights have already been supplied to the US Military. Aimpoint products are used by military customers, law enforcement agencies and sportsmen worldwide.


Seems the Army uses more than just loopie.
dave

E? Comment? Seems Roy has you pegged.

I'll tell you all why you really want a Schmidt and Bender riflescope.

I was hunting in Wyo a month ago and saw a big buck in front of the sun late afternoon. I put my crosshairs on him and a few seconds later he was dead. 7X6 and large spread and body. Even my guide took a pic of him. He was 270 yards away(lasered).

In my scope, as I got on the animal, there was a hint of whiteout due to flare, but not enough to hinder the shot in any way, even though the sun was almost shining directly into the scope. I've shot with other scopes, and I can tell you the whiteout would have been total, and I would have never got the shot. I simply would not have been able to pick out the animal.

That's why you want an Alpha scope, and S&B is among the best.

Good post....this lighting situation is far more difficult to deal with than the standard "fading light" scenarios mentioned by many folks,IME...and I have bumped into it quite a bit in the west particularly.Messing with various scopes, at the range, I have seen it as well and some scopes definately manage the situation far better than others.

Sounds like another case of an unfocused scope issue to me Bob.

RD: Nope. ..seen it quite a few times out west with a rising or setting sun and slopes in deep shadow,against strong background light.

It's a tough condition;the scopes just fade out and you really can't see into the shadow.Plus you lose not only the reticle,but the sigt pic as well.....like the chap says the scope just flares out.

Yep, he left the building after he got called out. That's the beauty of the the Internet, don't need to be accountable. Typical.

Poor E

Always getting picked on.

John

mrmarklin
In that same type of condition the loopie reticle turns pink or gold colored.
....A person we all know claims he never seen that as well.
Sounds like you did fine shooting there guy.
Enjoy.


dave

"veiling glare" is the term you are describing...

it forms as a strong haze over the image that washes it out and takes contrast away....like if you turn the brightness up all the way on a TV or computer monitor

most really good scopes prevent with this with good baffling and painting the edges of glass etc.... it happens in binoculars as well

even a zeiss conquest level scope should handle that pretty easily..

i dont see it in my swarovski but ill be honest i havent seen it from any scope in awhile, any scopes with 300-400 price tag and up at least