Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Talking brother out of 45-70

Im about to have a bunch of 45-70 fans jump down my throat here. My brother told me he was going to buy a Marlin 45-70 for him camp defender. I said "your crazy man, 12 ga pump! Ever heard of it?" I asked him to show me one situation where a 45-70 is the best choice, and to not be able to name a better rifle/shotgun for the job. I cant name one. Look at the 45-70 ballistics. Its very close to 44mag. Just in a heavier package. Sure there is some tradition that goes along with it but I'll take logic over tradition to put meat in the freezer.

Really?

Lets just look at factory 45-70 ammo...

300 grain @ 2350 fps.(Buffalo Bore)
350 grain @ 2150-2200 fps(Buffalo Bore and Grizzly cartridges)
400+ grain @ 2000 fps.(Grizzly Cartridges)
430 grain @ 1930 fps.(Buffalo Bore)

Which 44 mag has those ballistics again?

Jayco

Im looking at Remington ammo chart right now.
240 gr@ 1760fps / and 1660 energy out of the muzzle- 44mag
300 gr@ 1810fps / and 1590energy out of the muzzle- 45-70

That Remington factory ammo you are quoting was designed to be safe to fire in a Sprinfield Trapdoor rifle....


Look at Hornady Leverevolution. A 325gr Hornady FTX at 2150 fps from and 18" barrel.

I stand corrected. I still cant see any situation where a 45-70 is a better choice than any other rifle/shotgun.

The numbers you are showing are way wrong too.
How does a heavier bullet traveling faster in the .45-70 have less ft-lbs of energy?

TO compare the 45/70 to the .44 Mag, even out of a rifle, is ludicrous. A better comparison would be the .44 Mag to the .444, and the .44 Mag still gets its guts stomped. .44 Rifles are cool...but in no way, shape, or form comparable to a big bore levergun.

Buffalo Bore is a pretty controversial compnay, but a good place to compare hot ammo specs....

Here is their hottest .44 Mag
340 gr. L.F.N. - G.C. (1,478 fps/M.E. 1,649 ft. lbs.)

And one of their hotter 45-70 loads
00 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (2,350 fps/M.E. 3,678 ft. lbs.)

And, just to mix it up, a .444 load they offer
300 gr. J.F.N.-(2,150fps/M.E.3,078 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Granted, the .44 Mag will gain a pretty sizable amount of velocity and energy when fired from a rifle, but it will, in no way, approach the .444 or 45-70.

From Grizzly Cartridges..A 405 grain/.459 bullet at 2,050 fps.

45-70 +P 405gr WLNGC

Caliber: 45-70 +P
Bullet Wt: 405 Grain WLNGC
Velocity: 2050 fps
No. of Rounds: 20

Jayco

I shot lenth wise thru, a 400lb black bear, with the 405 rem. load, went in behind his neck and thru, and out the rear ham! droped on the spot! 45-70 the way to go!

Nonsense. Explain exactly how a HEAVIER bullet going FASTER carries less energy, which is what your two examples are showing. That's just BS any way you look at it.

Then you add something for bore diameter, .43 vs .458" (minimal but still the cross section means something).

Then, too, that's paper gack, real world has proven time and time again that paper gack ain't worth ink used to print it.

The modern 45-70 is a large animal killing machine.



Jayco

The only valid reason I can come up with for a 12ga over a 45-70 is the versatility of of using it for ptarmigan etc around camp.

Already been shown, but there is no comparison between a 44 and 45-70.

For one thing, the .45-70 has the .44 mag beat, with those bullets listed, in regards to sectional density. Which means that with those two loads you mention, the .45-70 will out-penetrate.

Now take a Beartooth PileDriver Jr at 1800 fps, or Beartooth's PileDriver at 1600 fps (or comparable bullet from another manufacturer), and find a .44 mag load that will even begin to get close to the penetration and smashing ability of those two bullets out of a .45-70.

I own rifles in both cartridges, and have loaded extensively for both, and have found basically you can push a 540 grain bullet out of a .45-70 at or slightly faster than the same speed that a .44 mag will do with a 300 grain bullet.

You must not like your brother...

Screw it! Delete thread. Only ones guy is getting the point here. When is a 45-70 better than any other rifle? Is a 45-70 as lethal as buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot? No. Is it as good on the tundra as a .300 mag? No. Is it as good a brushgun for deer as a 30-30? No(overkill). Its a centimental old mans rifle...

And you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Nahh, let me retract...you have less than no clue, you actually think you know.

let me know when its better to have a 45-70? give me a clue.

I think you need it at this point.

in comparison to a 12ga? I will take the 45/70 every single time. Slugs are great, if you are close. Anything over 50yds, the 45/70 has it in spades. Penetration, range, and accuracy.

Over a 300 Win Mag? Easier handling, flexibility in loads, increased magazine capacity, better bone breaking penetrative ability.

Over the 30-30? Umm...everything, with the possible exception of range, but even thats arguable.

Anthing in camp is going to be under 50y.
For the 300m- My guess is your tundra experince is limited.
45-70 over a 30-30 for deer? Sorry but I like to keep meat.

Matt,

12ga buck shot or rifled slugs are made out of soft lead so the expand more than jacketed hunting bullets from a truebig game rifle and do not penetrate.