Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Shcmidt & Bender thoughts

Yeah, me too. I have three of them -- two with #4s and one with a #8. They rock!

To the OP, if you want to get S&B glass, I have a NIB Summit that I listed in the classfieds much below retail. I bought it from an acquaintance who won it at an SCI event. I agree with JB's assessment on the quality of the glass. I tend to prefer FFP reticles, but this is indeed a stellar scope. I've just decided not to do any builds anytime soon.

That must be the ultimate Hubble glass.

DF

I have the Hensoldt 6-24x72, and the image has to be seen to be believed. Was it worth what I paid? To probably 99.9% of sportsmen and shooters in general I'm certain the answer would be a resounding "NO [bleep] WAY!". However, I didn't buy it for them, I bought it for me, and I have no buyer's remorse...none.

I have a Zenith 3-12x50. Spectacular piece of glass, and the #4 reticle is fantastic. Got it cheaper in Canada from wolverine than the american prices as well

Magnumdood,



This reminds me of a Christian song, "Wonderful words, beautiful words of life...." I feel exactly that way about my optics; from the Alpen Wings ED 8X20 on my waist to the Swarovski z5 5-25X52 on my Savage .257 Roy. So no matter how poor these Alpens are they are better than 99.999% of the population without something.

In fact I was hunting the other day with a guy who had some kind of ultra light 6PPC rifle with a 3-9X. He had 8X binos. So did I. He found a deer bedded but could not determine whether it was a buck or doe. I found the deer with my binos and then switched to the "rifle mounted spotting scope" as someone here posted. Turning up the magnification to 25X!, I could see easily it was a doe. He tried but could not hold steady enough to make it out, so I guess he is just fine with a 9X max.

Good for you. It's your money, and if your happy, then it's worth every cent. No one can put a price on your happiness, that is of course unless you're in Las Vegas.

Something to be said for having a spotting scope on top of your rifle.
I know that I had no problems seeing 30 cal bullet holes at 600 yards with my 5-25x56 PMII.
But at the time is was mounted on a 17lb 1000 yard bench gun....
dave

This thing weighs 8 1/2 pounds. When the Weatherby gets back home from Pac-Nor the 5-25X will be moved to it. Its weight will be about 7 1/2 pounds.

I have 5 S&B scopes and they are all superb. Very rugged and well built. The optics stack up with the best as well. I also use Zeiss Diavari and Kahles CS series, but prefer S&B.

I seem to recall that the new VX-6 Leupold that Barsness tested rated an 8 just like the S&B's he's tested.
I've compared both as did the owner of the one we compared to my older M8, 6X42 Leupold. After focusing and refocusing both for almost an hour, neither of us could see a difference. Might be a tiny one to most careful testers, but we could find it.
The VX-6's have had no tracking problems either. E

Thanks Eremicus. I needed that chuckle.

FWIW I had a few each of the "Alpha" glass (Zeiss, Swaro etc) when I moved I sold all of them except the S&B`s and bought 1 more, Im not a great fan of zooms but have 1, the others all being 6x42.

They do everything that they should and nothing less.

To new.
Just shoot them awhile.
They will.

dave

Eremicus,

Like I posted before, when I compared my Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50 with my Nightforce 12-42X56 looking at leaves and twigs on trees about 200 yards away I could not tell any difference. But when I made the line chart with 1/4" lines and spaces there was a major difference. At over 500 yards the Bushnell needed 15 1/2X setting while the Nightforce didn't need to come off of 12X to see the lines and spaces. If just I turned the Bushnell down to 15X I saw a grey rectangle.

What I am saying if you didn't use some kind of eye chart or line chart comparing optics at animals, brush, twigs or leaves leave a lot of information behind. What did you use for your comparisons?

Ringman
Ever run your Nightforce against your Swar?

I used a 5-25 PMII for a whole season of 1000 yard BR.
I switched it out for a 12x42 NSX for no other reason than the S&B has a P3 reticle.It almost covers the crows at 850 yards.
My NSX has the NP-2DD reticle and my score did go up by about 3 overall...
I just had to do alittle to much inventive holding with the Schmidt.
That being said the Schmidt is better optically then the NSX.
Its a hard to put you finger just why.
But when you spend as much time behind them as we do for 1000 yard BR.Pretty easy to see.
dave

My gunsmith has a bit of a hard on for US Optics scopes these days. He is building .260s for 1000 yard shooting. He showed me one of his five rifles with the big US Optics scope on it with the big ranging wheel on top. I never read anything about them, but he sure likes them. I grew up with S&B, Swarovski, and Zeiss being the big three. Now, I hear that March scopes are the best available, and the competitive shooters who can afford them, have them. That and my gunsmith is favoring US Optics, which I never heard of before seeing his.

dave7mm,

All my shooting is casual. Some at the range and some at varmints.



You will not like the answer. On the same day I compared the Nightforce 12-42X56 with the Bushnell 6500 I included a Swarovski z5 5-25X52. Where as the Nightfoce needed 12X to see the individual lines and the Bushenll needed 15 1/2X the Swarovski required 16 1/2X. I purchased all these so it was not like I was against any. I paid the most for the Swaro so was very disappointed. It was better than the Bushnell in low light but not as good as the Nightforce.

I returned if for a full refund. This happened twice more. Swarovski #2 and #3 were not as good as the first one. The forth one is a keeper in that it is about like the first one, except a litle better than the first Swaro in low light. (My gunsmith told me, "A sample of one tells you nothing.) It is about half way between the Bushnell and Nightforce for low light and weighs less than either of the others.

I have never seen a rifle scope at the range that is brighter or clearer than the 6500 during normal day light; except Nightforce. So far I have not had the pleasure of a Schmidt & Bender.

I consider myself a wanabe shooter; except off hand with my scoped .454. (A sitting or maybe sometimes running jack rabbit at 100 yards or closer is dead meat on the first shot!) Therefore I compare spotting scopes, binoculars, range finders and rifle scopes on the same eye chart at the same time. I play with optics and inadvertently annoy folks here who are sophisticated, and others who at least think they are, with my posting fun for me information.

Welcome to the world of optics. There have been many improvements in the resign of optics over the years. CAD, CNC machinery, along with modern lens manufacturing techniques have made optical devices better than ever on average. I say on average because every now and then there will be an old lens that can give a modern run for it's money. Every mass produced item is assembled with parts made to a specific manufacturing tolerance. As a given item is assembled, the tolerances start "stacking up" until the assembly is complete. But no assembly is 100% identical, because the component parts are not 100% identical. More parts means more chance for variance in individual assemblies, optical devices included. In any production run, one/some will be the best and one/some will be the worst when compared to each other, but all may still be with in the the manufacturing tolerance for that item. If you happen to get a scope where everything "just came together right" during assembly, you'll have an outstanding example of that product and in side by side comparison it will out perform the others. A near "perfect" example may even outperform some more expensive designs that are not quite as "perfect" in assembly. This is why some expensive things fail before they should and some cheap things last far longer than their price would indicate they should. It's also why people that buy a lot of one model are often heard to say "this one is better than or not as good as" others I've owned. Nothing is truly perfect or identical. Back in the old days when lenses were ground and assembled by hand, there was a lot of variance from one example to another. Ones that proved to have exceptional performance were held back and saved for the most discriminating customers. I worked for a major Redfield dealer back in the early 1970s. The Redfield 3200 was a hot item among target shooters, and we sold quite a few. We had one really good customer the was into bench rest shooting and would do anything to shoot better. When ever we got a new batch of 3200's in, he would take them all home and spend several days "testing" them. He would then buy the best one or two (regardless of power) out of the lot and bring the rest back. Although we heavily discounted Redfield products he insisted on paying full retail for the testing privilege. He did this batch after batch for several years until his death. So if you get one of those "shining examples" hang on to it until you get a better one. Never assume the next one will be just as good.

timbo762,

Thanks for the short lecture. I actually order video lectures on line. It took me three Bushnell 6500's before I kept the one I have. The two 4200's are not quite as good as the 6500 during the day, but are better in low light. Who would guess it.

Ringman

I knew that you had the Swarovski z5 5-25X52.
But I didnt know you had to go thru all that.
Far as I know there is nothing else even close to your z5 in that power to weight range.Thats the attraction for sure.
Not sure I want to put all the hand stands in, to get there.
Ouch.

Nightforce are heavy.
S&B dammed heavy.
U.S. Optics are stupid.
....a fixed 22x us optics weighs 2.5 pounds.I looked.
I'd actually have to run a lighter barrel on my 17lb. light rifle to make the us optics work...not happening.

I built a 6.5x47 this last summer.In a 17lb light rifle for 1000 yard BR.
The two main rifle scopes you see on the line at Ridgway are
Nightforce.And Sightron.I actually counted the number of Leupolds on the line.For 95 shooters there were 4 loopies.
I picked up a 24x44 Sightron and mounted it on the new 6.5.I turned the scope 90 degrees so the windage knob is in my left hand.Ever so handie to make windage adjustments in a hurry.
The adjustments are off.But there not off very much.The main thing is the Sightron repeats.And it dials up in a straight line.I would not want to muck around with the thing in the dark.But we shoot in the middle of the day.Figure I can get 5 or 6 sightrons for the price of one S&B.say 4 Sightrons for one NSX.
I only got to shoot one match with the sightron.So I have no idea how well it will take the pounding.
ill find out next summer.


dave