Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles No use for Berger VLD's

What scope? fixed or variable...

..............Hmmmm hmmmm! Yep! My question too.

A recovered carcass is the best evidence for determining VLD success or failure.

Seems like when every time someone reports a VLD failure which is rare anyway, the animal goes un-recovered along with no autopsy to determine why the failure occurred.

To the OP!....Seems to me that your first VLD kill was a complete success. Experienced VLD users are not concerned with bullet weight retentions, nor with complete pass throughs, or with what the darn bullet looks like after recovery.

After proper bullet placement is made as with any bullet, vitals shock or vitals obliteration for the most part is what we VLD users are concerned about.

Assuming the proper weights of hunting VLD bullets are used for the game being hunted, I have yet to read any report or see a pic, where a hunting VLD impacted the shoulder bone area of either a W/T or elk, to then just bounce off regardless of impact speed.

Possible you mistook the hunting VLDs as the target ones? Because that explanation might possibly explain the possibility of a VLD bounce off.

Either you missed the game entirely, used the wrong VLD, or you hit "superbuck" where you were supposed to (which can include shoulder bone) with the proper hunting VLD and he kept right on a going.

With no carcass as the best evidence, I have to lean towards the first two explanations.

Well you do hit on a point that not many know: Using a variable scope will help with bullet performance.

Not quite like wearing Aviators but it not everyone can pull off Aviators.

Was the mulie DRT?? Also you stated you have lost a few animals as have many of us. My question is where those others from bullet failure also or maybe just maybe something else?

The scope had diddly squat to do with anything Leupold 3x9x40 vari-X II with 1/4" dials installed.The hit WT was seen 75 yards after the hit and it's shoulder was toast with entire right front leg/shoulder hanging.So it wasn't a low hit.Also pin prick blood spots to nonexistent.Gun shoots 1/2 groups with darned near any bullet weight and he was shooting prone off a bi-pod.A partition would have been a dead deer.Have personally seen a Rem 165gr cor-lok stopped in the fatty tissue of a bull moose hump and explode to pretty much dust with only 4" of penetration.The worst bullets were the 80's vintage Nosler ballistic tips as you either got surface wounds or an exit hole you could stick your head into and not get your ears wet.My son can take the lens out of your glasses at 200 yards.Usually one shot per animal although the mulie needed a neck finisher.I've shot most available bullets and have seen the good ,the bad and ugly.It's not baseball one strike and your out.I don't like losing animals.

OP, Are you 100 % sure you hit the animal? I know one time I thought I hit this buck, I searched hi and low for hours. Come to consensus I just flat out missed, never found blood, nothing. I can understand bullets can fail,and there are some superbucks out there too that just keep going.

I've seen post with Nosler BT's blowing up, Barnes TSX penciling through. Just saying, not happy just switch bullets. So when you posting them for sale?

Disregard my post you answered my questions.

Here are a few shoulder shot deer with the VLD. Funny how the bullet didn't bounce off on a single one.







[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/9570397e.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/f3133622.jpg[/img]
Wonder why I have never seen a VLD fail to perform?

Personally I am not a huge Orange box fan. I am not sold on the whole penetrate a little and exploding thing. Rather trust a hornady interlock but that is just me.

What I really want to know is how did you decide on how many "A's" to include in your handle here?

Sorry guy... I'm gonna have to trust my 100% positive experiences with VLDs on 10+ animals than your negative experience on two animals...

John

Hey if they're working for you have at her I'm leaning in another direction...Partition.Never had one fail yet.Several other people on other forums have had similar "experiences" with Bergers as well, so to each their own I guess.I think there is no difference between the yellow and the orange box just packaging and hype.I won't bother swamping the post with dead game pics taken with other brands.As for the multiple aaaaaaaaa's ,the forum wouldn't let me sign in for nearly an hour cause all the user names were taken so in frustration I typed aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah and it worked!

..........Pardon my confusion here.

The WT you describe above, with the "toast" shoulder along "with the entire right front leg/shoulder hanging."

Was this the whitetail you lost, or the one that was killed and recovered?

Well I guess we are all victims of our experiences and here are a few more. The idea that a 130gr VLD will turn on a whiteys shoulder is simply way beyond anything I have seen as the VLD always punches through any bone I have seen in any situation.














Must be just freaking lucky that the VLD somehow worked.

Maybe the bullet landed in a somewhat vital area???

Not a fixed power scope in the lot, I do see a pattern...

Agree - Bergers never blow up....

To be fair to John, this one wasn't hit "squarely" in the shoulder, but rather at a quartering angle into the shoulder socket. Similar results on the other side of the deer - one skipped off a rib when he was running and destroyed most of both hind quarters.





I recovered about 40 lbs of meat from this muley I had to shoot 4 times with 140 grain VLD Hunting bullets out of a 6.5 Weatherby at about 110 yards. I sold every Berger I had after that. I've killed a dozen nice muleys with Barnes 85 grain tsx's out of a .243 and every one has been a boom flop with almost no meat damage.

I know Stoney and others have had great results with them, but I like to eat the critters so prefer minimal meat damage and bullet that won't blow up on impact at high speed (lost an elk with a Remington corelok hit squarely in the shoulder at 200 yards when it blew up). Just personal preference, but I wouldn't discount anything the OP said based on my own experience. Accubonds, TSX, TTSX, Partitions and similarly built bullets for me!

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Assuming the proper weights of hunting VLD bullets are used for the game being hunted, I have yet to read any report or see a pic, where a hunting VLD impacted the shoulder bone area of either a W/T or elk, to then just bounce off regardless of impact speed.

[/quote]

See pics above - that was my first shot quartering towards me with a 140 grain VLD hunting bullet. It blew up and never entered the vitals. Ruined the entire shoulder, neck but no penetration.

I've heard a lot of similar stories with fast moving VLD's and other frag bullets. Surprised to hear you've never heard one.

I too see a pattern. Those damn fixed power scopes will screw a guy up in a hurry.

Here are some more �lucky deer� killed with the VLD. Not single �Bounce Back� in the lot.












Don't like the way the VLD kills quickly, fine, but the idea that the bullet will not bust a whiteys shoulder is simply silly.

John, I hope that fixed power crap wasn't aimed at me. My McWhorter 6.5 Weatherby wears a Swaro Z6 2-12x50 tds. I'll shoot groups against you or anyone all day long with it. Hit within a tenth of an inch from where I was aiming.

I've only shot 1 deer with them, and it was close range with a 3300 fps bullet, but it's one of those personal things - when there are so many better bullets out there, why risk it.

See pics above - that was my first shot quartering towards me with a 140 grain VLD hunting bullet. It blew up and never entered the vitals. Ruined the entire shoulder, neck but no penetration.

I've heard a lot of similar stories with fast moving VLD's and other frag bullets. Surprised to hear you've never heard one.

[/quote]..........Until now, I haven`t heard, seen, nor have I read of one.

And that pic of yours that I see above with the buck lying in the truck,,,is a VLD entrance wound?

And yet, in not one of John Burns pics on this thread and pics of others do we see such entrance wound damage.

Although my primary VLD experience lies with some 60+ hogs (using 30 cal 168s and 175s @ 2850-2950 fps from the muzzle), even my hogs have never had such entrance wound damage.

My only other game killed using a hunting VLD, was a bull elk using RL17 behind a 30 cal 190 VLD; 2845 MV @ 328 yards using my 300 WSM Frontier compact. The 190 entered the right shoulder bone, successfully penetrated that bone area, and then went on to do its thing with major internal damage. There was no exit wound on the bull`s left side, but there were numerous bullet fragments found just below the hide on the opposite side.

The entrance wound on the right side was small, nicely rounded and neat and clean.

Your VLD bullet obviously impacted your WT above at a higher speed than did the 190 on my elk. Holy crap! That is some major entrance wound damage that I have never seen from a VLD.

That wound almost appears as though, that your VLD entered that area, then hit a bone, and then was deflected right back out in that same area. That`s the damn biggest entrance wound I`ve ever seen.

Call it a fluke? A defective VLD? At any first glance, the first thing that mostly anyone would normally conclude, is that it looks like an exit wound.

Your experience in this case, certainly doesn`t jive with Burns, most others, nor mine where the hunting VLDs are concerned.

Well! At least ya got 40 lbs of meat uh??...

Happy trails.

The fixed power thing is simply an inside joke with me and Shrapnel.

As I have said before I think you were running the VLDs faster than is prudent and in the context of the OP (.270 Win and 130gr VLDs) it is a different situation.

Simply put I have shot a lot of animals with the VLD and never and I mean never had a �failure�. Sure an 80gr VLD launched at 3450fps will fail to penetrate an elk�s shoulder but that is hardly a bullet failure. (Tried it twice just to make sure but never lost the elk).

A .243 105 VLD is an elk killin sumbitch when launched at 3080 fps and it is so proven that anyone who doubts it is simply making a statement about their shooting ability.

When we get to the 140 gr VLD in the 6.5 then we find the finest big game bullet ever offered if we use a good smooth barrel and keep the muzzle velocity at or below 3250 fps.

I realize you have not been happy with the results out of your 6.5 Weatherby but then again from where I sit the 6.5 Weatherby is too much of a good thing. Scale back and really see how well this bullet works from contact to long range.

When I have no problems with elk shoulders at close range with the 140gr VLDs from my .264 Win Mag (3250 fps in a really smooth barrel) how does that square with your experiences?? Heck I killed a bull elk this year at 110 yds with the .243/105gr VLD (3080 fps at the muzzle) and he lived less than 10 seconds after impact.

Killertraylor...........Forgot to ask. What was your best guess for bullet impact speed on that WT??