Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Hunter's Numbers down in Idaho and Montana

The problem is many fold. Young hunters starting out need access and some kind of success to get hook. They still want that in their lower-income years before things get rolling. You can't expect a teenager to hump up and down all weekend (no time off from skool) and get skunked again and again.
Then you have the very real predation factor. I'm amazed at the drop in windshield deer over the past six or seven years all over Western Montana's dark highways -- I actually feel a lot safer, but that was also a "scouting" mechanism for me for "real" hunting when the season rolled around.
As for FWP, they are actually abandoning hunters, the Wildlife Society is actually having meetings discussion what to do to save the game agencies as hunters clock out. This is no shyte. That ranch up by the Milk, or Spotted Dog -- that's not about hunting opportunity, but "wildlife management" toward a preserve model. FWP and IDFG are completely out of control in their craving to maintain agency staffing and budgets.
As for I-161, it incredibly poisoned the hunter-landowner relationship, I guess the ringleader there is a Wildlife Federation member, and both the Montana and National WFs have thrown landowners under the bus several times.
The BMA withdrawal is a rebellion over FWP's dirty dealings on the bison issue. I have rancher cronies in the affected area and they really do have legitimate fears for their future, so to get hunters to show their loyalty, they pulled out of the BMAs.
This couldn't do more damage to hunting in general, but you have too many useful idiots who can't see and don't understand the big picture strategies at play here.
The biggest shame is the voters of Montana, who voted wrong this election in too many races. Not like they had any help from our third-string media.
But a good example is the Milk River Ranch. Eve Byron, who is about the only real "journalist" working in Montana, did a fine couple of stories on Milk River. It is political favoritism writ to an extreme. I'll be at the FWP hearings.

I love Dinky the meter maid's crying..

Have you ever considered testosterone treatments to counter your chronic bitch whining?

The NR participation is down because of the economy. There are other factors at play but the consumer must watch their discretionary money. With gas, food, utilities, various taxes going up, there are fewer dollars to spend on your favorite pastimes. I first started going out west and spent $50 for a WY mule deer or antelope tag. The trespass fee was $50. I and a variety of buddies have gone every year since then. It is our "therapy" and we budget for it. Now much older, we realize our longevity is limited and will "stretch" a bit to make those trips.

Having said that, the western states are learning a basic economic lesson. You can charge whatever you want, just don't be surprised when the customer stays away.

I have hunted NR Idaho for the last 15years. The last few years they have not even been close in selling out their whitetail deer tags and they have had many elk zone tags not sell out either. The hunting has deteriorated considerably over the last few years as well, primarily due to the at that time escalating wolf population.
The little town we stay in is suffering badly with the loss of NR hunters. Idaho Fish and Game has shot themselves in the foot and will soon have to raise resident fee's to stay financially afloat.
It has been politically popular to hammer the NR hunters but economically stupid, no surprise there! We are talking about politicians.

Yes, they are finding out that every NR hunter is not some rich dude with money to burn.

Travis,

Glad it makes sense. I also don't know if it can be extrapolated, but I have heard other anecdotes that are similar from more than just my spot.

The elephant in the closet is really non-outfitter leasing. The State has no data that I can find on what is leased. Say what you will about outfitters, but they are regulated and quantified quite well. The outfitter-leased acres are a pittance in the overall scheme of leased properties in the araas where I have done some digging and research. The other thing that is impacting hunter opportunity is the leasing of a property for a certain type of hunting, but tying it up for all hunting. I know of several bird hunting leases that are never hunted for deer. I can get on through the "club" that leases it to hunt coyotes, but since none of them hunt deer, they don't really value that aspect, even thought any of these guys could hunt deer there, only one that I know of does. I am trying to figure out an angle, as there are some great deer on the place. I will not, however, put my name on the lease to do it.

I need to start another thread entirely on getting our youth involved earlier, as that is something I see as critical.

I can't beleive I didn't get a GFY from Travis.... I almost feel slighted!

This is complete BS, also last time I checked we are not making more public land. If FWP can convert private to public I am all for it.

Thanks for your input. Interesting

I am talking about the big game combos that cost around $900 dollars and to which you referenced earlier.

Very interesting read guys. I sure hope it gets figured out so that residents can enjoy good quality hunting and the average nonresident can partake to some degree as well. The leasing problem is concerning. I sure dont want to see the western states end up like Texas.

I have hunted Montana (for birds) in the past and sure enjoyed my time there. Hope to go back sometime soon. Would love to shoot a big game animal out there, just dont know if it is in the cards. In the meantime, I hope you are able to wade through the political [bleep] to get it figured out.

I agree that creating more public land for hunters is a tremendously great thing. But unless they patrol it and enforce the law it will just be all shot out and ruined in a couple years.

Not sure how you knew that, but yeah, I do...


Travis

I really appreciated the reply.

Now GFY.


Travis

Interesting post in as far as the MT voters and hunters have spoken in regards to what Montana hunting future should proceed. Have been off this forum for some time and have just this AM had an opportunity to read this post. BTW, I see that Dink is once again attempting to hijack this discussion to wail and moan about his personal woes. Good luck with that. As is the situation has been muddied by various events and situations. FWP has some fence mending to do with ranchers. Outfitters are upset that their businesses have been impacted. Nonresidents are feeling the pinch of tags fees. Residents are seeing fewer game animals and so on and so on. I hunted the 700 zone for 'lopers and deer. The antelope population has severly declined due to weather. The deer population has declined due to blue tongue and EHD. Yet, many want cheap tags and lots of free access. That is not the answer. Ranchers are closing their gates to hunters, hikers and others. Is this a statement meant to wake the politicians? Perhaps, perhaps a statement to all. IMHO, we must work together to formulate a plan for what is good for the general good of all parties. We, as residents, face higher license fees. That I accept along with taxes and death. But, these fees must be spend wisely and for the general good. BTW, I did see many nonresident license plates during my month long trip to central MT to hunt. Funny how it has been said that the nonresidents were staying away and not hunting MT. Most were cruising the back roads morning and evening looking to score the easy deer, 'loper, elk or whatever. I saw few in the outback where I scored a good 'loper buck and a WT doe.I passed on a good three point mulie. Admittedly I will say that getting them out at my advancing years is becoming a real chore. But, worth the effort none the less. I hunted BLM, BMA and state lands with access to back country with good opportunities. I hunted hard for an old man. It was very vigorous and satisfying. The work effort was a good part of the hunt and I enjoyed the task. My 2 cents for what it is worth. MTG

It's the ecomony, and modern kids...

That and the unwillingness of many folk to leave home without having a professional nose-wiper/handholder on standby.

Don't worry.. They have the campfire forum to keep them company.

I dont get this chit that billygoatgruff is whining about:

But those not living in a state dictating to those that do, how to manage their wildlife, set their prices and quotas, and how to run their state certainly sounds Obama-voter-esque.

Who passed I-161?

Sure as chit wasnt NR hunters who cant vote in Montana.

I'm speaking to those, Dink specifically, who maintain that the residents who live in a given state do not have the right to manage the game as they see fit.

It's not hard to understand.

Get it yet?

Doesn't sound like BGG is cussing 161.