Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 405 Winchester Ready at last

Taken a while but I am finally ready for moose. My Winchester repro 95 in 405 has had some vertical stringing issues. Thought I'd cured it but it came back.

I needed to

1) Further Skeletonize the front stock reducing it's weight and rigidity
2) Relieve the connection to the front of the action and glass bed with .007 relief created by electrical tape at the front of the action (then removed when the bed cured)
3) Steel bed the front hanger into the stock (but removable)
4) Add a Williams Fool Proof and Ashley Post front sight
5) Add some brass shim stock to the Williams FP to keep the peep from wobbling
6) Added a lace on recoil pad

Now a very solid shooter. No more Vertical Strings. Shoots 1.75-3" round groups at 100 yards, depending on the load and brightness of day which is about how well my 52 year old eyes do with Receiver Sights.

H 4895 slightly the most accurate but Bench Mark gets an extra 150 FPS with Hornady FP's and Spitzers. The Flatpoints take 1 extra grain of BenchMark and 2400fps is easily reached (Over 3800foot pounds.

At 2350fps the Spitzer is 1.8" High at 100, on at 150 and -4.2" low at 200. It is hitting 200 with 1737fps and 2009 foot pounds. The sectional density of .250 is better than the 450 Marlin's 350 grain bullets at .238. Very well balanced load for open sights.

Once you catch onto loading the magazine it's quite a gun. I like it better than my 450 Marlin and will try to get a moose with it this fall.

Next up wet newsprint testing. Heard the Hornady bullets are a little fragile.

Congratulations on your progress and good results. I feel very lucky that my 1895 TD in .405 did not require such work. The Williams FP receiver sight has been dead on since I bought the rifle from the original owner.
Your loads should handle a moose nicely, especially if you place that Hornady into the heart- lung area.

Remember to post more results as you go and especially pictures of the moose you shoot.

Will do. Will also take my scoped 358 Norma which is all I've ever used for moose. The 405 is moving into elite company. If it's a shot under 200 yards the 1895 has a good chance of getting the call. I admit the stock work was a bit nerve wracking but worth the effort.

If the Hornadys are too frangible for you, try the old X bullets. They work fine in my #1.

Thinking of buying some Woodleigh 300 grainers. Their bonded and should be good.

I recommend the 300gr TSXz over the Woodleighs and certainly over the Hornadys. Way better bullet, higher BC and they penetrate! and accuracy I can guarantee will be better. jorge

Agreed!

Well..I'll try them. I do like more explosive expansion on side shot moose then X bullets deliver. I think the Woodleighs will be a good balance between expansion and penetration and should be easy to get in the same zero as the Hornady bullets. I ordered a hundred today. The Hornady spitzers should make a great caribou load.

They will shoot to POI as the Hornadys, the Woodleighs will need some tweaking. BTW, the TSX is not an X bullet by a long shot. Completely different technology and they will out penetrate the Woodleighs and certainly the Hornadys.

Mine are the old X bullets -- believe it or not, got a pretty good deal on them, and they will penetrate pretty good too. Canadian prices on the TSX run pretty high, and moose are not that hard to perforate.

My best loads so far

300 Hornady Sprire points 57.0 Benchmark and Federal Magnum primers. 2330 fps and 1.5" groups. The 2330 was with reg primers. I switched to magnum primers to see if ignition and groups improved...they really did but I wouldn't be surprised if velocity did too as base expansion is greater. Maximum Load!

300 Hornady FP and 53.0 RL7 2215 fps Reg Win Primers and 2" groups.

300 Hornady FP's and 54.5 3031 regular primers. 2170 fps and 1.5" groups.

Worst Loads

300 FP and Benchmark.....Still vertical stringing from 56-59 grains. 3-4" groups

300 FP and H4895....Now getting Vertical Stringing 3-4" groups.

Of course with the peep sights the above group sizes are the result of one session on Sunday and I am not as consistent as I am with a scope. Good light yesterday really helped.

The impact of the Benchmark loads on the Berm was very impressive. So far have not recovered even a bullet stub as the bullets seem to be shattering on impact. The Hornady bullets seem a bit light jacketed and might be best for caribou and under or game at over 100 yards. Shooting at the 300 meter gong seemed to suggest it shoots flatter than you'd think with the Spitzer. With a range finder I think 300 meter hits are possible.

2330 is way hot. I'd back it down to 2250-75 at most

Hodgdon gives Benchmark loads to 59.0 grains and 2400fps in a 24" barrel. Has pretty good base expansion but not seriously out of wack.

However I have dropped down to 56 grains with Magnum primers. 57.0 grains with Reg primers.

Yeah but not in an 1895

You motivated me to move my lazy butt all the way downstairs to get the manual.

2012 Hodgdon Annual Manual
Using a 300grain Horn Flatpoint 59.0 grains of Benchmark reaches 2404 at 42,200 psi. This is well withing the safety margins of the 1895. It is less pressure than 3031 uses getting to 2216. The starting load of Benchmark is 53.0 grains and reaches 2206 at a paltry 34,100. OF COURSE...as always please start low and work up (or down) carefully, but in my 1895 2400 fps with Benchmark seems safe. 2330 fps or so seems to shoot better however.

NOTE: Do NOT try anything close to this with the much longer X bullet. It's a whole different animal to load.

My Chronograph agrees with the velocities. Base expansion testing seems to suggest the top loads are stout as compared to factory loaded ammo but not excessively so. Magnum primers seem to improve groups but pump pressure.

Back from the range. The most consistent powder for the three bullets I shoot is RL-7. Ken Waters load of 53.0 grains works well with both the FN's and Spitzers from Hornady. The FN always shoots lower on the target by an inch or two and gets about 40fps less with the same load. RL-7 also seems to get the best accuracy from the Woodleighs.

Woodleighs develop more pressure and velocity than even the Spitzer Hornady bullets. About 100 FPS more than the Hornady FN and enough more pressure to get you into trouble. 2 full less grains of most powders seems about right. The extra diameter (.412 vs .411) also causes slight resistance on chambering (my rifle must have a tight throat).

As far as bullets on game. I have started using wet newsprint with some hard catalogues mixed in. The heterogeneous media seems to stress bullets more than straight wet newsprint, and creates similar stress on bullets as seen on those I have recovered from game. The Hornady FN and Woodleigh both penetrate 12-13" of this media. This is similar to 250 grain bullets in my 358 Norma. The Spire points actually penetrate 13-14" of the same media. The Hornady bullets start opening up quicker than the Woodleigh with the woodleigh seeming to have a bit more consistent wound channel throughout the range of penetration.

I am using the Hornady Spitzer this Fall on moose. I think it's bullet action is about ideal. The first half wound channel was something to behold!



The 405 was criticized for having a poor sectional density with 300 grain bullets. Interestingly the 300 grain .411 bullet is equal in sectional density to a 375 grain 458 bullet. Pretty good for NA game in my opinion though I am still thinking of buying some 350 grain Hawks.

Caliber Weight Sectional Density
0.308 165 0.248
0.411 300 0.254
0.411 325 0.275
0.411 350 0.296
0.429 300 0.233
0.429 325 0.252
0.458 350 0.238
0.458 405 0.276
0.458 435 0.296

The 350 Hawks have about the same sectional density as a 435 grain .458 bullet. Should be plenty. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if the 300 Barnes out penetrates it. The 300 grain Barnes should be able to be made to hit to the same Point of Aim as well. I am waiting for my TSX bullets to ship and will test them when they arrive. Might not bother with heavier bullets. I like the explosiveness of the wound channel caused by the faster impact speed.

The 300 grain .411 bullets are equivalent in S.D. to a 325 grain bullet out of a 444. Given the Hornady Spire points performance on fairly tough media I think they might be all you need for anything in NA. Of course will have to see how they perform on heavy game before promising anything.

Thinking of buying some Woodleigh 300 grainers. Their bonded and should be good.

North61,

Did you manage to kill a moose or any critters with your 405 Winchester last fall?

Sorry for the late reply. No, I ended up using my 6.5 Remington Magnum for caribou. 130 grain Nosler Accubonds that shoot well to 600 yards! Ended up with so much meat that I didn't go moose or bison hunting. Have ended up shooting the 300 X bullets and they shoot under an inch at 75 yards. Got to like that!