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#7149399 - 12/05/12 New Rimfire From Winchester  
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usull Offline
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Just read that Winchester will be bringing out a new Rimfire Cartridge and it will be the FASTEST Rimfire period . Supposed to happen in early January . Not much else is known . Wonder if it will be a 20 ..... or something wild like a 19 or 18 ? Anyone know more about it ?

AIH 728 BP
#7149711 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: usull]  
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Yoder409 Offline
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All someone's gotta do is load a 25 grainer in the 5mm Rem Mag and they've got the fastest rimfire period.


Wollen nicht krank dein feind. Planen es.
#7150989 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Yoder409]  
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markopolo50 Online content
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I hope they come out with the 5mm in a lever and make some 25 gr like Yoder says. I have been eyeing the old Rem 5mm but they are kind of high. Of course any new Winchester probably won't be cheap HA


USE ENOUGH GUN (Ruark) and YOU CAN'T EVER HAVE TOO MANY (me)
#7151009 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: usull]  
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tndrbstr Offline
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E TN,..yep, thats right!
My first response would be WHY?.....I mean, other than just to make something nobody else does just to do it...or is there a legitiment void in the rimfire calibers that are available now that maybe I'm missing? confused

#7151152 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: tndrbstr]  
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avagadro Offline
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40 gr 22 cal rf with the speed of a HMR smile


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Order of Sleepless Knights

Originally Posted by GOD
... That is when I carried you ...
#7151329 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: avagadro]  
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Poodleshooter Offline
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I'm going to guess that it's a 5mm again.
They've got the bullets designed for the .204 Ruger to work with now, as opposed to when the 5mm RM came out. It will probably have a 32gr Nosler BT or a Hornady Vmax, as the first load.
The reason: lots of places here in the east ban centerfires, but allow rimfires, and people want better performance at distance with what they can legally use
.
In short, the same reason the .17HMR sold so well: cheap compared to .22 centerfires for non-reloaders, usable almost everywhere, superior to the .22lr, flat trajectory.

Last edited by Poodleshooter; 12/06/12.
#7151356 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Poodleshooter]  
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tndrbstr Offline
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E TN,..yep, thats right!
I have a .17 hmr. It did seem to find its own niche pretty well...it just seems to me that there are not very many gray areas left for the rf cartridges, I could be wrong tho.

#7152591 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: tndrbstr]  
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KyWindageII Offline
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Yawn. Another HV rimfire. The .17 HMR seems to have been developed for the eradication of western ground squirrels and nothing else. It is too powerful for edible Eastern tree squirrels, cottontails and grouse, but insufficient for Woodchucks and other critters of that size.

This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.

Since so few of us hunt edible small game anymore, there will never be a market to develop such a load not to mention the expense of developing suitable firearms.

Oh well...

#7152624 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: KyWindageII]  
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tndrbstr Offline
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E TN,..yep, thats right!
my .17hmr seems to work pretty well on the coyotes round here, as long as I stay away from the 17gr balistic tips. I've killed 6 with it this year.
Other than that, meat damage on the tree rats or rabbits is pretty much relative to shot placement.

#7152705 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: KyWindageII]  
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VarmintGuy Offline
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KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

#7153294 - 12/06/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: VarmintGuy]  
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IslandFirearmCoatings Offline
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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.

#7155344 - 12/07/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: IslandFirearmCoatings]  
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ratsmacker Offline
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Originally Posted by IslandFirearmCoatings
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.




It works, but there's a lot of merit to KWII's assertions, too. Here in Kentucky, where the ranges aren't as long as out West, an old-school rimfire larger than .22 would have a lot of good uses. The old .25 Stevens, and the old .32 Stevens rimfires would probably be the cat's azz for our needs.
Alas, that's unlikely as hell, for the reasons KWII mentioned.


You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
#7155392 - 12/07/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: ratsmacker]  
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Blackheart Online content
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Originally Posted by ratsmacker
Originally Posted by IslandFirearmCoatings
Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
KyWindageII: I actually burst out laughing when I read your post the first time - then in disbelief I read it again to look for some sign of satire, like you might be joking about this cartridge!
No luck with that re-read.
I have been using the 17 HMR on Varmints and small game since day one!
To date I have used my 17 HMR Rifles (and one pistol) to cleanly kill:
Coyotes
Fox
Badgers (these Varmints take a LOT of killing by the way!)
Porcupine
Raccoon
Snowshoe Hares
Rock Chucks
Skunks
Jack Rabbits
Prairie Dogs
Rattle Snakes
Wild Turkeys
feral cats
Grouse
large flying Varmints
Cottontail Rabbits
Ground Squirrels
Weasels (and Ermine)
If you can not cleanly kill a Wood Chuck with your 17 HMR Rifle then you are either trying to stretch the range beyond the cartridges capability or you are not hitting them in a lethal portion of their anatomy!
Speaking of Wild Turkey, in addition to the 17 HMR, I have killed them with the 22 L.R. and the 22 Magnum - simply strike the bird with your rimfire projectile at the base of their neck and go pick'em up and start plucking.
I 100% absolutely disagree with your depiction of the wonderful 17 HMR cartridge and its lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'm with VarmintGuy on this one. However, I'd like to see something that will shoot a heavier bullet fast.




It works, but there's a lot of merit to KWII's assertions, too. Here in Kentucky, where the ranges aren't as long as out West, an old-school rimfire larger than .22 would have a lot of good uses. The old .25 Stevens, and the old .32 Stevens rimfires would probably be the cat's azz for our needs.
Alas, that's unlikely as hell, for the reasons KWII mentioned.
What would those needs be ? I can't think of anything here {NY} that they'd be better for than the rimfires that already exist.

#7158824 - 12/08/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Blackheart]  
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They'd be the cat's azz for turkeys, groundhogs, beaver, coyotes,bobcats, the heavier vermin. Not that the current stuff won't kill them, but I think the larger, heavier bullets might be more decisive at times.


You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
#7159327 - 12/08/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: ratsmacker]  
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Let's see - someone posts that they read that Winchester is coming out with a new rimfire cartridge in the near future with no other information about it and there are already folks defending their favorite cartridge against it.

Wow! I can hardly wait until it actually arrives on the scene if folks are already getting this worked up about an unknown item. This has the makings of a long winters reading.

drover


223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
#7159916 - 12/08/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: usull]  
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Jim in Idaho Offline
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Originally Posted by boy1
Just read that Winchester will be bringing out a new Rimfire Cartridge and it will be the FASTEST Rimfire period . Supposed to happen in early January . Not much else is known . Wonder if it will be a 20 ..... or something wild like a 19 or 18 ? Anyone know more about it ?

I have it on good authority that Winchester is going to hollow out the rim of the .225 Winchester to add priming compound and neck it down to .204. 25 grain V-Max at about 4600 fps for varmints, or 55 grain "heavy for caliber" TTSX at around 3900 for elk. They're still trying to get a ROI on their initial outlay for the .225 and thought the market was right.



Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
#7160325 - 12/08/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Jim in Idaho]  
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drover Offline
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Well that won't work - they will need to use at least a 27.5 grain bullet and a 8.3 twist barrel for that to work otherwise it will be overbore and understabilized.

drover


223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
#7160644 - 12/09/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: drover]  
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ratsmacker Offline
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Originally Posted by drover
Let's see - someone posts that they read that Winchester is coming out with a new rimfire cartridge in the near future with no other information about it and there are already folks defending their favorite cartridge against it.

Wow! I can hardly wait until it actually arrives on the scene if folks are already getting this worked up about an unknown item. This has the makings of a long winters reading.

drover



I'm not THAT worked up about it, either way. I've been thinking along the lines of the old Stevens rimfires for quite awhile, though. I think they'd be funner than a cat in a blender.d:^)

Of course, I thought the idea of a .17HMR was kinda silly until I saw some cartridges, and it instantly said "hey, this would be fun as hell on prairie dogs". I listened, and bought the first HMR to hit town. Still love the little tyke, too.
It was only two weeks ago that I regressed a little and bought a .22WMR barrel for my CZ455, and I still haven't shot it yet.


You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
#7162997 - 12/09/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: VarmintGuy]  
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usull Offline
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There appears to be a fair amount of interest as well as some skeptical attempted humor about this Rimfire Topic . According to Eric Mayer who is often involved with Rimfire Industry news , the Ammo will be at the Media Day Event ( for the Press )... the day prior to the start of the Shot Show , and that he will be there to report . It will be interesting to see if some of you guessed right .

#7163516 - 12/09/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: ratsmacker]  
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Originally Posted by ratsmacker
They'd be the cat's azz for turkeys, groundhogs, beaver, coyotes,bobcats, the heavier vermin. Not that the current stuff won't kill them, but I think the larger, heavier bullets might be more decisive at times.
Can't use a rifle for turks here so nix that. They wouldn't be "the cats azz" for coyote as that requires .22 centerfire ballistics. The 5mm Remington is decisive on groundhogs to at least 150 yds. and a slower, larger bore rimfire won't best it.

#7172278 - 12/11/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Blackheart]  
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Upstate N.Y. (not the city, th...
17M2 for me.
17 or 22 Hornet is the next logical step up.


I am the NorthEast WoodsBeast!

"System version 1.3, divorced"
#7174049 - 12/12/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: KyWindageII]  
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DigitalDan Offline
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Originally Posted by KyWindageII
Yawn. Another HV rimfire. The .17 HMR seems to have been developed for the eradication of western ground squirrels and nothing else. It is too powerful for edible Eastern tree squirrels, cottontails and grouse, but insufficient for Woodchucks and other critters of that size.

This Eastern Hunter would like to see an updated .25 Stevens Rimfire with a 65 grain bullet at 1150-1200 fps for edible small game and a 60 grain JHP at close to 2,000 fps for critters up to Coyotes to 100 yards. A fast turkey load would be nice too.

Since so few of us hunt edible small game anymore, there will never be a market to develop such a load not to mention the expense of developing suitable firearms.

Oh well...


Would be pleased to see a larger bore RF introduced or reintroduced myself. The .32 Long is OK, but I'd like something in the .40+ caliber range, maybe 200 grains or a bit more around 1400-1500 fps.

Think what Hornady did with the .17 HMR introduction was a brilliant piece of marketing and have no issues with those that have a use for them. I don't, nor do I see any particular need for another small bore RF cartridge. They all have some catching up to do with the .22 Hornet which is the bottom rung on the ballistic ladder insofar as varmint cartridges go. Barring a significant advance in propellent performance RFs will never close the gap on any CF varmint cartridge.



I am..........disturbed.

I always wondered what the job application is like at Hooters. Do they just give you a bra and say, “Here, fill this out?”



#7175886 - 12/12/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: DigitalDan]  
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Yoder409 Offline
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From another site:

Originally Posted by another guy
This is an update from the guy who originally released the info.

We broke the news here that Winchester is introducing what is going to be the fastest rimfire cartridge in the world in early 2013. Whats clear is that this round will up the performance bar for rimfires by quite a margin giving it a clear ballistic advantage over other rimfire rounds.

But how will it do with respect to the two As: accuracy and affordability? I know that one of Winchesters main goals is to keep the round affordable, about within 10 to 15 percent of the price of current premium rimfire ammunitionso it should be competitively priced.

With respect to accuracy, I have reason to be optimistic and reason for concern. Some key elements of this cartridge have a proven track record when it comes to accuracy, while others are venturing into uncharted, and potentially hazardous territoryat least from the standpoint of turning in small groups.

But Winchester's key partner in this venturethe company that is making the first rifles for this roundtakes its accuracy very seriously, so Id be surprised if the round doesnt turn in varmint-sized groups at 200 yards.

But Ill only know the answer to that question once I get behind the trigger.


And then...........

Originally Posted by another guy
Another update, more info found.


If you think the 300 Win. Mag. is a significant improvement over the .30-06, wait until you shoot the new ground-breaking rimfire cartridge from Winchester. I'm not allowed to disclose its name or caliber yet, but it's scheduled to storm the market in 2013, beginning as soon as early or mid-March. Its performance exceeds current cartridges in its class by a wider margin than the 300 Win. Mag. over the .30-06.

I don't say this based merely on rumor or manufacturer hype. I've shot the new round. It does everything Winchester says it will. The bullets fly from the muzzle 500 fps faster than any other rimfire cartridge I'm aware of. At 250 yards, they retain nearly double the energy of the next-best round in their class. During my testing off sand bags from a portable bench, five bullets clustered just over 1 inch at 100 yards in light but variable winds. A single four-shot group went into a .39-inch spread, and one 300-yard four-shot group fell inside of 2.5 inches. All this was accomplished with a prototype bolt-action rifle so unrefined that cartridges had to be hand fed and extracted from the chamber with a knife blade.

Ballistic coefficient and velocity of the bullets are so high that this new round should hold a Maximum Point Blank Range of 250 yards on an 8-inch target. This means you aim at the center of the 8-inch target and hit it at any and all distances out to 250 yards. Last but not least, the new rounds should cost within 10 percent of currently available rimfire rounds in their class, or about a third less than some centerfire rounds with similar ballistic performance.

Because dimensions of the round are significantly different from any others currently made, at least one gun maker is reportedly building newly designed bolt-action rifles to fire it. Two more are reportedly working on additional models. Whether those are bolt actions, break actions, levers, semiautos or something else remains to be revealed.

New cartridges are a tried and sometimes true method for ramping up sales in the shooting industry, but most of them provide only incremental improvements over existing rounds. This new cartridge from Winchester is more than that. Much more. It should be a game changer.


Wollen nicht krank dein feind. Planen es.
#7176243 - 12/12/12 Re: New Rimfire From Winchester [Re: Yoder409]  
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tndrbstr Offline
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E TN,..yep, thats right!
Thats pretty interesting yoder409. I just question the void that is lacking in the current line up that is going to draw enough of a market to justify and sustain a new round (plus the gun to shoot it) in the long haul.

I'm not saying its not there, I just think its gonna have to be a few steps beyond the novelty factor to survive.....now If I could kill a coyote at 200 yrds with it with out compensating my aiming point I might just be the first in line for it....

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