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The place I hunt whitetails is a big crp field. The crp trees and grass is about 7 foot high so I hunt tripods and ground blinds set up on roads that are about 30 feet wide. The blinds are mostly set where you can shoot 500 yards in either direction down the road. By the time a buck enters the road, you only have about 2 seconds to judge him and make a shot. I have a 300 WM and am shooting the 208 Amaxes at 2900 fps. My question is what distance should I zero my rifle to be most effective since I don't have time to range the deer and make adjustments to my turrets. I missed a huge buck Sunday afternoon by shooting under him and killed a nice one the next day. The deer I killed was at 400 yards and I just spun the turrets real quick without even looking and almost missed him high because I spun it too much. My zero now is set for 200 yards. My scope is a Vortex Viper 5-15x44 with a mil dot reticle and was thinking that I could use the reticle for hold over some how. What would you do in this circumstance.

Hopefully you have a scope with some kind of ballistic reticle; TMR, Varmint Hunter's, or something set up in MOA.

If so, zero the rifle for an intermediate range shot you will encounter and check the data for hold over out to your furthest shot opportunity. Draw a diagram of the reticle and the ranges that correspond to the aimpoints and put it on your gun

You'll still need to be able to range deer before you shoot

What kind of scope and reticle do you have? Sorry just saw it. Mil dot.

Easy solution. Check drop in mils for ranges past your zero

With all my scopes with ballistic reticles, I have made a sticker like this.

My gunsmith has a board accurately marked for MOA and mils. I use it to determine reticle subtensions at HIGH power so no witness mark as to be lined up.

Couple of quick thoughts, switch to a scope with dotz, you've got one less movement to go thru. Range and kill, no turning of a turret.

Second thought, put some range flags out or somehow mark the distances so you don't have to range them.

Just a thought, best of luck to ya

Dober

The scope has mil dots. I thought about the flags and that seems like the best option. I also considered dragging a rag with doe in heat down the road before each hunt or even taking an air horn to try and get them to stop for a split second. The bucks are up cruising right now and are walking with their head down on a mission to find does.

RapidZ 600 reticle and yardage markers/flags

jsthntn247,

Welcome to the fray. If you can sight you rifle in so that the max height is no more than 3". That gives you a center hold to at least 350 yards for most rifles.

Also learn your dots.

Been doing some thinking and playing around with jbm ballistic calculator. If I zero at 300, and keep my scope on 12 power, how will this effect holdover since my sub tensions are set at15x? Will 1 mil dot (mil) really be 1.25? If so, I can put one flag at 360, which still puts me in vitals, and anything over that use the first dot out to 450.

If you have a long shot and need to hold over, crank your scope up and don't worry about that. Just something to screw you up. Don't make it more complicated

Spin your dial for a 225 yard zero. At that point .5 mils will be 300 yards, 1 mil will be 400 yards and 2 mils be be 500 yards. Instant BDC reticle.

Turn scope to 15x for the shot.

This is a common "problem" with whitetail bucks in open and semi-open country.Even more so when encountered under circumstances where setting flags or distance markers in advance is impossible, as in much mule deer hunting.Muleys can be as big a headache.

I am a simpleton when it comes to this stuff.Today,I shoot a 7mm Mashburn and 160 or 162 gr bullet at 3180 fps.The scope is a fixed 6X with LR dots.

I zero with this load exactly 3" high at 100 yards.This is as high as it is prudent to go to avoid mid range misses on closer shots,where the bullet is no more than 3.5-4 inches high at 200 yards or so.

No need to worry about trajectory to 300-350 yards.A center chest hold will kill them...At 400 the first dot down is POI;the second dot down is 500,and the tip of the bottom "post" is on at 600.

Before the Mashburn, friends and I used a variety of stuff like the 300 Win mag, and Weatherby, the 7mm Rem mag,and the 270 Winchester....all zeroed the same.A top of back hold with any of them could be accomplished quickly and got chest shots to 400-425 yards or so,where a 165-30 or 140-7mm at 3200-3250 was down about 8"-9".The 270 dropped 4-5" more.

This was not holding on air, because we had the frame of the deer itself to aid as a reference in relation to our known trajectory.

Under these circumstances, turrets are fine if you are very fast and practiced.....I guess.Never used them.

I started using the H-25 Horus reticle in a ffp scope a few years ago, and once I got used to using it, I really, really like it. NO turning turrets. Took a few hundred rounds to really get the hang of it, but it's second nature now.

Definitely take every step out of the equation that you can. As mentioned get a ballistic reticle that's trajectory specific, and know it inside and out. Get a BRF, so you can have the range without having to apply another optic. I figured that when i sacrificed for the Leica Geovid BRF i use that it would help for very mobile predator targets i like to hunt. But it helps way more than i ever thought it would. Might also be a good idea to have a partner to establish a spotter/shooter system--another shortcut that works. You could establish a point blank range reticle-rangefinding system that I've personally used some and found it effective most of the time. I bet using the systems the guys above have detailed as well as some i mentioned you could cut your accurate engagement time in half.

The speed equation always intrigues me. I guess because SOOOO many over estimate (or is under estimate) time. The OP said 2 seconds from the time a deer appeared to judge and shoot. In no way is that close to reality. 10 seconds would be closer to reality for a WORLD class shooter to recognize, judge, get into position and hit a 300 yard target. If started from a rest you can take about 4 or 5 seconds at max off of that time. Again, for a very solid shooter.


I only bring this up because the tendency is to believe that "reticles" are so much faster than "dialing". This may or may not be the case. Often times it is not.

The more I see this thread heading, the more I am disturbed by the intent.
In my book, there is nothing about "long range" and "quick shot" that goes together. If you truly have only 2-3 seconds to see the animal, judge quality/age, aim, and shoot, you should be passing on this animal no matter the range, much less 400-500 yard shots- IMHO.
If the deer doesn't stop for a few seconds (10-15) and present a decent shot, rushing the shot is just going to produce a wounded animal that you will then have to track in high grass and brush- not exactly a picnic. More often than not, this results in a lost animal.
Better to wait for a better opportunity and practice, practice, and practice some more.

Just my 2 cent's worth.

Bob

I think the 2-3 seconds thing might be the product of time just speeding by when a great whitetail buck appears very suddenly, after you've been wool gathering for hours o days while seeing nothing....but that's just the way trophy whitetail bucks "are".

Maybe not in the open at great distance, but I do know for a certainty that I have killed bucks on the move at moderate distances within those times...off hand.

Lets just say,OTOH,that there is little doubt that you may have to react rather quickly;and the less dilly dally you do the better.Personally I've had it happen a number of times,the last 2 years ago at something over 300 yards,and yes it was a scramble to take a half turn in the sling and twist around into the "sit".I hit him twice through the chest,and "knew" I could kill him from the start;which is why I hustled into the sitting position and half-wrapped up.

400-500 yards in a "hurry" is tough...a mature whitetail buck in the rut can cover a cut line in a surprisingly short period of time and they generally do NOT stop at all, let alone long enough for you to get as ready as you would like.These situations play out differently in real life than they do writing about it....and only your own experience and confidence level will tell you if you can kill cleanly or not.

Every hunting shot is different;as an experiment, and at his request, I ran Formidilosis' test of starting from the standing position with a pack on my back,and timed myself removing the pack,and hitting the ground,and using the pack as a rest on a 300 yard target....my "times" ran 7-10 or 12 seconds IIRC ,the 7 coming when things went extroardinarily smoothly,and I found the more I did it, the better things got.I wouldn't call the results at all distinguished, but they likely would have gotten the job done.

I do recall telling Formid there was no way I could have done the same "times" if I had to spin a turret....that is a trick for younger dogs accustomed to the procedure

I will stick very closely to the MPBR system that has served me well for about 40 years and not worry too much about the 500-600 yard stuff....I don't frequently run into trophy class whitetails and mule deer at those distances anyway.They are a bit too clever to lolligag in the open for very long.


I am envious of those whose hunting situations are so relatively static that they have the chance to set out wind flags and shoot a few clays from the stand they intend to hunt that fall.i am not so lucky and frequently find myself bumping into those animals from spots I may not have ever seen until that day, or moment.

247, One of my whitetail hunts each year is in a situation much like the one you describe, except it is an old strip mine, and I am able to range various spots before hand.. Trees, shrubs, posts etc..I also have a spot were I can set up a dead rest for when I do get a shot..Like Bob I often use scopes with dots, or the Burris Balistic Plex..But mostly I have had custom dots placed in various scopes for this shooting..BUT here is something else for you to consider..Whitetails don't require heavy bullets ..While heavy boattail bullets are super for very long range shooting, I have used for many years the 150 or 165 grain boattail bullets..One of my favorites is a 150 Nosler BTBT..out of a 300 win. it is no trick to hit 3400fps. and sighted in 3 inches high it is down less than 24 inches at 500 yards..with this load you can hold on a deers back and kill him at 400 yards..at 500 some hold over is required..I used this combination on my bighorn sheep in 1991 and a long shot was required..it worked perfectly..The .257 Wea. is often pointed to as a great long range deer caliber..You .300 can do the very same thing with more bullet wt. and energy..

It would take me too long to judge the rack through a spotting scope at that distance to see if I wanted to tag it for me to have a chance. I sight Zero at 300 with everything flat and that restricts me to hurrying at less than 400.

I have hunted all over north america,but health for the last 15 years has restricted me to my home stomping grounds here in western pa. i HAVE SHOT many deer at ranges beyond 300 yards out to near 500 but the vast majority between 350 and 450 yards. u must know the range,and the drop,aka bullet drop,and effects of wind. these shots take practice. PERIOD. not on live hunts but at the range or some place where long safe shots can be practiced.
ps i use a 270 winchester

How good/quick are you at math in your head? I know guys who claim to be able to range an animal and compensate for drops using only mil dots very quickly. I can get pretty close with a MOA or mill reticule, but my math is slow and I shoot too many different rifles to ever commit drops to memory.