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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3 |
Customer brought in a problem; Browning A-5 to be cleaned, but he tried and could not remove the buttstock retaining screw and warned me he already broke several thin bits in the attempt. Long story short, every trick I knew to try got me nowhere. I was afraid a previous owner might have used red locktite on the threads. Couldn't apply heat due to proximity of the wood. I was stuck. Customer said to go ahead and cut off the stock and obtain a new one. I warned him any new one would not match, color-wise.. He was ok with it. New stock showed up, color was WAY OFF (like night/day and nothing one can do basically). But before I started cutting off the original stock (which was in excellent condition BTW) I thought I'd try one 'last resort' tool - an impact driver. Only used it a couple times before over the last 15 years but I don't recall trying it on a firearm. One bit was the correct width, but too thick. I modified it enough to fit exactly into the screw's groove in the head, propped up the top tang on a wood block to prevent any damage and gave-er-hell.. It took 4-5 good whacks, but I finally saw movement!!! It was SO TIGHT that I had to use the impact driver for one full revolution of that screw before I could finally use a screwdriver to remove it fully.. Dang - that was ONE TOUGH NUT to get to move, and it did NOT have locktite on it - just extremely tight in the stock's thru-hole. I reamed that out just a tad before re-installation and used a new screw after the original looked like crap after that work.. Bottom line - I saved the customer over $200 and retained his original stock to match the fore-arm.. For a Friday - it's goin' well.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Big up's to you! Instead of buying into the consume mentality of today, you showed up with creativity. Let's create, be artisans and produce instead of being simple minded consumers.
Last edited by Rev579; 12/14/12.
<�))))>< (_(_(_) ><((((�>
Romans 12:2 "Don't be conformed to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds so that you can figure out what God's will is & what is good and pleasing and mature."(CEB)
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,427 |
Was it a hex head or phillips or flat blade?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Cool, and thanks. Would never of thought a stock would shrink enough to trap the screw.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3 |
Was it a hex head or phillips or flat blade? Flat blade on Browning A-5s.. A bit of luck was involved - the owner ( during trying himself) had actually widened the normally thin slot, enough so that this impact driver's tip could be thinned enough to fit yet still have enough strength to work this beggar loose..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2007
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Pretty amazing; the power of the impact wrench or blow.
Kinda reminds me of removing the large front nut on an alternator.
Also fairly amazing, is the single blow to an action wrench versus a simple slow weighted movement, as in 250# with feet off the ground.
Sometimes the impact idea saves the day huh?
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,392 |
You old feller's never surprise me
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,320 |
Redneck:
There is another way, if you ever run into the problem again.
I had a Rem. 870 that I wanted to remove the stock, and the screw was so tight that I messed up the screw head and never got it loose.
Not having an impact screw driver, or even thinking about one, I found a drill bit about the same diameter as the screw head.
I turned a rod from a piece of aluminum, so that it would fit into the stock hole. I drilled a hole through the rod, the same size as the drill bit, and large enough for the rod to fit over the screw head.
I drilled the head off the screw and pulled the stock off of the receiver, leaving the head less through bolt in place.
The stock bolt on my stock was not being held by the wood, as was yours, but because of being extremely tight in the receiver.
Using a small pipe wrench, I was able to get the headless screw out. Of course, I had to replace the screw, but I replaced it with a hex head bolt. I purchased a hex head bolt about 10 inches in length, (don't remember exactly) and turned it down and threaded it.
Now, instead of trying to line up a screwdriver with the slot, I can use a socket and socket wrench to remove the bolt.
Factories should do that, anyway. There is no telling how many stocks have been cracked because the screwdriver blade was between the screw head and the stock, instead of in the slot.
When the screwdriver was turned when in this position, the side of the stock cracked out.
If you did not already know about this, I hope you can use this little tip in your business.
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Campfire Regular
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Yes, impact drivers are handy. I have a couple in the shop for tight things. Sometimes better is the slide hammer pictured below. It has a 3/8" square drive similar to the impact driver below it. Easier to use and control than a hammer and the impact driver; often a few light taps with the slide will get things moving as you put some torque into the knurled handgrip. Simple lathe job with some TIG welding. 1/2" dia alloy for the shaft. Knurled end piece is 7075T6 secured to the shaft with a couple of cross pins.
Last edited by Cabriolet; 12/15/12.
Survivor of the 13th Original Colony, I escaped on December 17, 1968.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
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"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,152 Likes: 24
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,152 Likes: 24 |
Redneck:
Now, instead of trying to line up a screwdriver with the slot, I can use a socket and socket wrench to remove the bolt.
Factories should do that, anyway. There is no telling how many stocks have been cracked because the screwdriver blade was between the screw head and the stock, instead of in the slot.
When the screwdriver was turned when in this position, the side of the stock cracked out.
If you did not already know about this, I hope you can use this little tip in your business. A proper bit for doing that has a large lug (like a socket) that centers it up in the hole bored in the wood so that it can't get between the wood and screw. But there is nothing wrong with your way.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 296
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 296 |
It's apples and oranges, guys. The A5 doesn't have a through-bolt.
I have used the impact driver on rusted-in action screws on Mausers. Another trick for stuck screws is to find a Brownells Magna-tip bit that fits the slot, or modify one to fit, and put the bit in the chuck of your drill press. Bear down with the quill while turning the chuck by hand. Of course a spritz of Kroil helps, too.
Clemson
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Campfire Regular
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If you can reverse your drill press a left hand drill bit will take a screw out sc fast it will scare you.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3 |
Redneck:
There is another way, if you ever run into the problem again.
I had a Rem. 870 that I wanted to remove the stock, and the screw was so tight that I messed up the screw head and never got it loose.
Not having an impact screw driver, or even thinking about one, I found a drill bit about the same diameter as the screw head.
I turned a rod from a piece of aluminum, so that it would fit into the stock hole. I drilled a hole through the rod, the same size as the drill bit, and large enough for the rod to fit over the screw head.
I drilled the head off the screw and pulled the stock off of the receiver, leaving the head less through bolt in place.
The stock bolt on my stock was not being held by the wood, as was yours, but because of being extremely tight in the receiver.
Using a small pipe wrench, I was able to get the headless screw out. Of course, I had to replace the screw, but I replaced it with a hex head bolt. I purchased a hex head bolt about 10 inches in length, (don't remember exactly) and turned it down and threaded it.
Now, instead of trying to line up a screwdriver with the slot, I can use a socket and socket wrench to remove the bolt.
Factories should do that, anyway. There is no telling how many stocks have been cracked because the screwdriver blade was between the screw head and the stock, instead of in the slot.
When the screwdriver was turned when in this position, the side of the stock cracked out.
If you did not already know about this, I hope you can use this little tip in your business. I've done that similarly on an 870.. I even made myself a bar with a milled head that will exactly fit the action tube cap on a M1100. Put that in place, use an adjustable wrench on the bar and voila.. If you can reverse your drill press a left hand drill bit will take a screw out sc fast it will scare you. Tried that - using my mill and turning the pulleys by hand.. I have never had that technique fail me before - but it only broke the bit and the screw never budged..and I was making sure I would not damage the surface of the tang around that screw.. As I said in the OP, I tried every trick I've learned in 15+ years in this business and the impact driver was the only one that finally loosened this dang thing.. If the angle in placement of this screw in the tang wasn't so goofy, I would have simply milled off the head, removed the bottom trigger plate and tang - then I could have gotten at this screw much more easily.. I would have had to build a special jig to get the angle right AND hold it firmly enough for the milling.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 675
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 675 |
One thing I do is replace the slotted head screw with either a hex head or a socket head when going back together. Buy a long shank grade 8 bolt of the correct size, cut to length and thread. Makes the next removal easy.
Survivor of the 13th Original Colony, I escaped on December 17, 1968.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,184 Likes: 3 |
I could, but the customer specified a proper A-5 stock screw was to be used.. He picked it up about two hours ago and was pleased as punch..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Customer brought in a problem; Browning A-5 to be cleaned, but he tried and could not remove the buttstock retaining screw and warned me he already broke several thin bits in the attempt. Long story short, every trick I knew to try got me nowhere. I was afraid a previous owner might have used red locktite on the threads. Couldn't apply heat due to proximity of the wood. I was stuck. Customer said to go ahead and cut off the stock and obtain a new one. I warned him any new one would not match, color-wise.. He was ok with it. New stock showed up, color was WAY OFF (like night/day and nothing one can do basically). But before I started cutting off the original stock (which was in excellent condition BTW) I thought I'd try one 'last resort' tool - an impact driver. Only used it a couple times before over the last 15 years but I don't recall trying it on a firearm. One bit was the correct width, but too thick. I modified it enough to fit exactly into the screw's groove in the head, propped up the top tang on a wood block to prevent any damage and gave-er-hell.. It took 4-5 good whacks, but I finally saw movement!!! It was SO TIGHT that I had to use the impact driver for one full revolution of that screw before I could finally use a screwdriver to remove it fully.. Dang - that was ONE TOUGH NUT to get to move, and it did NOT have locktite on it - just extremely tight in the stock's thru-hole. I reamed that out just a tad before re-installation and used a new screw after the original looked like crap after that work.. Bottom line - I saved the customer over $200 and retained his original stock to match the fore-arm.. For a Friday - it's goin' well. I bet that customer really appreciates what you did for him. Good Job
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Posts: 5,521 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,521 Likes: 1 |
Nice job and good problem-solving the old fashion way! Another trick if there is room is to weld an allen wrench onto the screw head. You then have something that you can put a greater amount of leverage on. May not have been practical in this case given the proximity to the wood - of course just wetting the wood or putting a wet rag on it might have been enough to isolate the heat.
Bob Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Been a few years since I've used one of those but they can make a difference on a tough fastener...
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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