Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Light Rifles = more consistently accurate in colder climates?

Though it tends to be easier to find a heat sink in the winter.

Trouble is around here any more there isn't enough to hold the rifle upright.

KW- Lol - so true.

JB and others, good info.

In an IDEAL world, it seems if one has a #1 contour side by side a #5 contour, same length, all specs, load, rifle/bedding, etc. and put them both in a vice, then both rifles would theoretically shoot a say 10-shot group in more/less the same size?

As to 10shot strings, perhaps if I had a 221-223 of modest capacity not a big deal, but many rifles will get VERY hot after 10 rounds, to me accelerating throat/bbl wear, i.e. a 220 Swift.

So accuracy aside, accelerated bore wear is enough for me to shoot 3 shots vs 5, or 5 vs 10.

A little of it is thinking inertia: it is widely believed that long range rifles need heavy barrels, especially within the military. Another is because the role and missions of snipers has changed significantly since the M40A1 was adopted. In the 60's and 70's snipers were closer to acting like backpack hunters. Portability, weight, "shootability" from field positions with one or two precision shots was more important then. In short, a more accurate "hunting" rifle was appropriate. The M40A1 is a heavy hunting rig.


Contrast that with the M40A5 and today's role (esp. Iraq), with multiple targets with rapid engagements, generally shots from static positions, the need for mag fed guns, suppressers, night vision, etc. All of those reasons and more are why gas guns have become so prevalent. What we're seeing is a meshing of bolt actions and semi autos and that leads to a very heavy rifle. I believe we have reached the end of the 308 bolt gun in military service. For 600m and in a semi auto in 223 or 308 is perfect. Past that you need a 300WM or 338L. Those guns are going to be heavy and long.



As far as accuracy goes anyone that believes that a #1 contour will place every single round fired into the same size group as a 1.25in full length is smoking crack. Are they capable of producing hunting accuracy? Of course they are. However if all those people with "sub MOA all day long" (when they do their part, of course) 6 pound rifles actually shot a statistically relevant amount of rounds and didn't make excuses for "fliers" they'd find out that their benchrest sheep rifles, aren't. Of course there are some really, really good shooting light weights, but they are not nearly what people on the Internet and in gun shops claim. I see several hundred hunting and LR comp rifles a year actually shot in training and competition and have never seen a 6lb 1/2MOA big game system despite a whole bunch of custom rifles and owners who swore that their rifle was a 1/2 MOA gun. Now I'm sure that there will be posters all in a tissy over this and will post a target or two showing a .5 inch group somewhere on the paper as proof that their Kimber Montana is a match quality rifle. Of course where I come from to be a true 1/2 inch at 100 yards gun, then it has to be able to hit a 1/2 inch dot on demand with no excuses at that range.

Even a lot of "sniper" competition guns aren't true .5 MOA rifles.

This one of my comp rifles. A built 243Win.



It is a true sub MOA gun but not quite a half minute one.








This one of my partners rifles. An APA built 7WSM. It is also the lightest dedicated rifle we have seen at a LR match. It's about 11lbs empty sans bipod. While it is a very accurate gun and has produced many sub half MOA groups, it also is not a 1/2 inch rifle.





Of course .5 MOA rifles aren't required for hunting, sniping, or LR tactical matches. A true 1.5MOA rifle will easily keep all it's rounds on a 12 inch plate at 600 yards, which is about the practical limit of general hunting rifles and a solid 1MOA gun can win every sniper match in the country.....




fwiw.... ULA/NULA rifles have been the most consistent light rifles I have seen.

Formidilosus, what type of scope is that on those two rifles? looks like the same thing

What kind of scope is that on the APA ?

Very Very good read here !!!

I know what they are....because I have a couple of them. Bushnell HDMR. GReat scope for the money.

Scenar answered already, however they are Bushnell HDMRs with the H59 reticle. It's pretty much all we use on our LR rigs anymore. Diffidently not your normal Bushnell.

Formidilosus,

I don't think anybody on this thread had suggested light contour barrels shoot as well as heavy barrels. Instead the suggestion is that the phenomenon of groups "opening up" as light barrels warm is more due to the odds of shooting 3-shot rather than 5-shot groups, rather than the barrel diameter.

I notice you'te shooting at least 5-shot groups to prove a rifle/scope/load accuracy, rather than 3-shot.

Agreed on all. I guess I was responding to several comments from different posters.



I shoot multiple 3 or 5 shot groups at the same target at the very least. Hunting rifles usually get 3x five round groups on the same target and competition and LR rifles are 10 round groups. In that vain we averaged up about ten "3 shot" groups with my tan 243 out of curiosity and it averaged just over .25 MOA..... It's still not a 1/2MOA rifle.

I am not sure I buy the light rifles shoot as well as the heavy ones. For hunting rifles probably...but you sure as hell dont see any #1 contour barrels on and competition rifles....and it is not just about recoil. As barrels heat up they do loose some accuracy even heavy ones, just not as much. The heavy barrel are consistant in holding zero and repeatable accuracy not once or twice but time after time. The military is not carrying around heavy sniper rifles because they dont know better...they need consistant repeatable accuracy and that what those heavy barrels give them.

LC

Gotcha.

I mentioned shooting 10-shot groups in one of my earlier posts.
I do that a LOT to prove the accuracy of my own rifles, loads and scopes, but the average magazine reader shoots 3-shot groups and can't comprehend what a 10-shot group means, or even a 5-shot group with big game rifles.

At $2,500-3,000 per rifle, they'd damned well better be.

I've shot a bunch of other rifles costing the same amount that didn't shoot as well, or consistently--and the new Forbes Rifles shoot just as well, at less than half the price.

If you weant to argue about custom rifle accurscy, I'm willing to provide lots of data.

How is the durability and tracking on those Elite Tactical scopes you guys are running say compared to Nightforce ?

John,
Hot or cold temps.
If the barrel gets hot enough.
No matter the contour...
It can mess up your view.
I get this black paper backed foam board at office max and cut it to fit.
Velcro does the holding.

If you get it to close to the brake.

Bad things happen.
But in general, a barrel shade will block the heat wave off the barrel.In most hunting situations, I cant see why a person would be shooting enough to need one.
For 1000 yard BR it kinda comes in handie...


For my 17lb "light" rifle I like a muzzle diameter over an inch.
You have to get creative sometimes to make weight.
But in general you take the rifle to as heavy as you can.

This right here is what a Gomer Pyle heavy assed barrel does for you.
Two shots at 600 yards from a cold clean barrel.
The fact thats its not in the middle of the gong is my problem.
Gomer Pyle heavy assed barrels also tune up quicker.
Alot quicker.

That being said I just picked up a Brux No5 for a 6.5x47 build.Thats going to be a 12lb 1000 yard light class rifle.
This should be an interesting project.



dave

I will admit that I am somewhat confused at this point. based on all that has been said here, what is the advantage, if any, of a heavy barrel?

in a target rifle? makes the gun heavier which helps with recoil which matters whan your shooting alot over a short period of time....helps it settle into what ever your rest is(bipod, bags, ect) so that minor twitches on your part dont move the crosshairs much.....if i was building a target rifle heavy is good...

a hunting rifle, for me atleast, is different....everything is a trade off in keeping recoil tolerable, having a rifle that balances well offhand, and isnt unnecessarily heavy cause my knees are shot and i do feel extra weight, you wouldnt believe how concerned i am about how much my footware weights cause over a certain point equals pain....

but i dont do long range shooting in my big game hunting....havent killed a deer farther than 300 yards away because of how i prefer to hunt and to me i would much rather have something like a Kimber Montana or NULA because of how i hunt.....some of the guys that like long gange hunting prolly wouldnt like my choices and i understand why....my Kimber isnt what i would choose for 500 plus yard shots cause its light weight magnifies every lil tremor on my part....

The most deliberate shot is the first. Thereafter things get more difficult with each additional shot. Worthless to worry about accuracy change with multiple additional shots. These are not varmint rifles gentlemen.