Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Gunsmith lathe. - gear head or belt driven

Well one thing for sure is that insulating and heating the shop is going to cost enough it's going to push the lathe purchase back to the end of the year.

But I'm still going that way.

At least I did finally get power into my workshop.

I've had two cabelas game hoists sitting in that shed doing nothing.

Sure put a smile on my face running them tonight when I got finished running the elec. to the outlets, and the lights. The last day of the year too.

BTW - thanks for the tips on moving the lathe - and not tipping it

The 3 phase version of that lathe is almost double the cost so that's not an option and as Saddlesore correctly pointed out you can't get 3 phase in residential areas so I'd have to use a converter anyway.

I have a Grizzley gearhead lathe, and wouldn't want a belt drive. It is harder to get different "things" to fit onto the spindle. Never buy anything that you cannot eventually set up for 5C collets. I think that threaded spindles tend to be less accurate.

The belt drive has a threaded spindle. Watch those chucks, faceplates, etc, pop-off if you run the darn thing backwords. My first lathe was an Atlas/Craftsman belt drive. I bought it new in the mid 70's. I ended up putting a frequency drive and a three phase motor on my present machine that runs off of single phase. Life is good now. What I hated was the fact that you had to take a big 10 inch gear off, and change it to go from high range to low range as far as spindle speeds. They don't tell you those things in the catalog. Cheapass design!

When I changed the motor I changed the drive pully to a compromise. Power is not a problem for a gunsmith. We don't make axels for railroad cars. My machine is an old Grizzley Model 1003 I think. It is a 12 x 36, and a bit short. You notice they have gone to a 40 inch bed. My old Atlas 12 x 36 was a bit longer "effectively." I bought a taper attachment with mine, and have never used it. Circumstances have kept me from useing it much. You need it if you intend to do any real barrel turning. I had to D and T the backside of the apron to instal it. It must be paralell to the lathe bed. For the life of me I cannot remember why that is so necessary right now, accept remember with that with a taper attachment you cut tapers in like a 9 inch section of the attachment.

Moving it: Do it in two steps. Take it off of the cabinet, and install the cabinent where you want it. Leveled it. The move the lathe, and put it on top, and level it. You don't damage the lathe when it is on the ground. I used an automotive engine hoist, and a sling. I took the tailstock off to move it, and put it back on after the lathe was mounted.

We let the lathe down the basement steps on a dolly hooked to the back end of a Ford F250 4x4 for an anchor. We re-assembled the motor hoist and lifted the lathe back onto the cabinet after it was located in the basement by the cabinent.

Comments from help were like, "You aren't going to move soon are you."

Good luck with your friends.... I bet there's a guy in Montana that is just fighting to come help, initials JB. None from here in Ohio.

If you call Grizzy they will give you names and numbers of people that own the models you are considering. WDO

I have two lathes and both are gearheads. Smaller one is a Rockwell 14 by 41 variable speed with taper attachment and 5C collet closer. The larger of the two is a Turn Master 15 by 60. I run both lathes on 3 phase power and don't have finish imperfections with either. Only problem I have is the MT taper is larger on the 15 by 60 so I have to have two sets of tooling or adapter sleeves.

Very true.

How old is your Grizzly? From what I can tell, the newer models use either D1-5 or D1-6 for chucks and faceplates. My 4003G is belt driven and uses D1-5.

On another note, the availability of a collet closer is a plus, though one can be made if the proper adapter can be found (MT5-5C, etc).

Looks to me like it'll do the job nicely..

VFD's up to about 3 HP are single-phase 230V input with 3-phase 230V output. This elminates the no residential 3-phase problem.

RAN

If you should ever need true three phase in an area that has no option (or the power company wants your first born to locate), this is the real deal:

http://phaseperfect.com/models.htm

Just a FYI, no affiliation.

A VFD is wonderful! I have 2 in my shop for my 2 Bridgeports. My Clausing doesn't need one as it is variable speed and is on a phase converter. I have no problems with a belt driven lathe.

The only problem here is that a 3 phase lathe costs way, way more than a single.


Worth it - especially given you have to buy a inverter?

Not so much

Simple to take a three phase motor, feed it single phase power, and get it to produce the three phase you need to run your lathe motor.

Used three phase motors are cheap and plentiful as well.

Google it.

But older industrial grade three phase lathes are available pretty inexpensively due to their being three phase.

The problem is that older industrial grade lathes usually have large motors, and large motors don't come in single phase.

Sounds like a Catch 22 type thing. Isn't that why they make phase converters?

I realize this and that's why I mentioned a way to make your own three phase power on the cheap.
Use a three phase motor, fed single phase from your garage, and once you start the motor it will produce three phase power to run the three phase motor in the lathe.
Single phase will run a three phase motor but it will not start it. Some folks just use a large pulley on the three phase supplier motor and give the pulley a little spin with the foot to get it going.

Yeah there are plenty of DIY pages on a rotary phase converter. I bought one just cause I had the money budgeted with the lathe.
FYI you can feed ANY VFD single phase and it will out put three phase your just have to derate it at the higher HP's say above 5hp by 30-50%

As for the value of a three phase machine. Umm I refuse to own anything else.
There are no capacitor to die on you. No start winding contacts to deal with. No nothing. The three phase motor is electromotive force perfection.
That and you get better efficiency, Better duty cycle, longer life. lower amp draw. yada yada yada.

3-phase and VFD's are pretty slick. Spotshooter.... are you saying the 3-p version of the same lathe costs twice as much? That's very odd if so.

I own both a 12x36 belt drive (varispeed) and a 17x40 gearhead lathe... I'll refrain from commenting other than to say I use the 17x40 most of the time. It does have very nicely ground gears and runs real quietly though.

My main reason for posting is to pass along that a local acquaintance got one of those 14x40 Grizzly's and measured the runout at the spindle at over .0003. That's not so good. He returned it and ordered a Taiwanese lathe that has a warranty'd accuracy spec for spindle runout under .0001". However, it's much more expensive than the Grizzly.

'Twer I you, I'd have a good gauge that reads tenth's on hand, and before I got too serious about even uncrating the machine fully I'd measure runout at the spindle. Send it back if it reads higher than .xxxx (maybe others can help with an acceptable runout spec for chambering work). My 12x36 Logan has about .00025- .0003", but my big lathe is beyond my ability to measure; well under .0001". I've been putting a bunch of effort towards tooling up the larger machine for barrel and action work because, partly, it runs so true. The Logan came with spiders and other barrel tooling but I can't abide .0003" when I have a better option (albeit with a deep headstock) across the room.

If I'm wrong about any of this, I welcome correction.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm curious as to where you are measuring your runout on you lathes.

Ruh roh <g>...

Butch, measuring the ID of the spindle nose with an Interarapid plunge indicator in both cases. It's the only option on the Logan (threaded spindle).

Is that wrong?

I thought my indicator was broken the first time I tried to measure the bigger lathe.