Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting How smart are old bull elk ?

In Colorado,on public land, a 4 year old bull is an older bull as there are not many that get past that age, except in the trophy managed areas. In OTC areas, you are hard pressed to find one that is over three. Of course every year there are exceptions.

Sorry haven't checked back on this thread.

I don't remember the number of bulls collared, but it was a pretty decent amount and over the years of the study I saw several collared bulls while hunting and know a couple guys that shot collared bulls.

As you might expect, in easy access areas the game department actually had trouble finding bulls to collar due to the fact that many got shot each year. In those areas, spikes made up the majority of the bulls killed.

When the signal on a collared bull showed that it wasn't moving they would send a guy in on the ground to see what was up. Usually it was a shot and lost affair. I ran into biologists and their crews looking for bulls several times and they had some interesting stories. In one case, two raghorn bulls took up residence fairly close to one of the few roads in the area by spending their time in a little hidey hole for a couple weeks during the mid-point of rifle season. One bull was shot by a hunter and the other raghorn hit the road getting out of Dodge. The raghorn moved 11 miles in one night after their hideout was hit. This was 11 miles in some of the brushiest steep country North-Central ID has to offer and was roadless the entire way.

Thanks for the info. Do know if they ever did a similar study on cows?

I know of a radio collared cow elk in the Black Hills that after the first day of elk season travel 18 miles east to west as the crow flies. She crossed several north to south running canyons that were substantial.

Not that I know of as most cow hunting was restricted to archery season, some muzzleloader, and limited controlled rifle hunting.

To hunt a bull elk, one simply had to just go buy an over the counter tag. This study was to see the differences in bull mortality in areas that had high access with most roads open, areas with closed roads, and areas with poor vehicle access.

In my mind this study really drove home the point that lots of open roads and unlimited bull tags usually means bulls don't live long.

Fascinating, Lonny. Thank you for posting that. E

Prettty much what I have always found. In Colorado,before the 4 pt restriction was put in place, probaly 80% of bulls killed were spikes, maybe even more. They did not live long enough to get wised up.For a few years it was slim pickings,but then killing a branched antlered bull was not all that hard, but still that 1-2 years that the spikes matured into 3-4 pointers,gave them enough time runnning with a herd,they figured out enough to stay alive that some matured into 5-6 x's.

Lonny do you have any more info about the archery loss thingy? Was this about elk hit and taken home and or elk hit and not found or what? Any idea?

Thx
Dober

Mark, it was bulls hit and not found by the hunter, but found dead by the researchers later. I'm just going from memory here, but at one time I had the study report and since it's been awhile back I'd hate to make a incorrect statement on the number that sticks in my head about the percentage of bulls lost from arrows. I do remember it was higher than I would have guessed.

One thing that might be mentioned is much of this country where the study was done isn't conducive to finding hit animals. The country is very brushy and even a 100 yard dash after a hit could require some serious looking and luck to find. No BS here, but I located a couple of my dead bulls with my nose. It was easy to walk within a few yards of a dead elk and still not spot it.

Bulls were also lost from rifle hits and one time driving to elk camp late on a Friday night I picked up a wet and cold research guy walking down the road with his telemetry stuff trying to locate a bull that hadn't moved in a few days. He was pretty certain it was dead, but hadn't located it yet.

Eremicus
You sound like I was when starting to elk hunt. One difference is I had a friend who was an elk slayer. He showed me the ropes and the learning curve was shortened. I never was the hunter he was but I got better. One time we were hunting together and were driving a two track up a drainage. It had snowed about an inch during the night. We were on the road at about 2 pm. A lone elk track was seen crossing the road. He stopped the rig and started glassing the other side of the canyon. I was glassing also but after 20 or 30 minutes I stopped. He did not and a bit later said I found the bull that made those tracks. When told where to look and other help rock by rock I finally saw what he saw, part of one side of a 5 point rack but not the whole elk or even part of the elk. He had about 1 1/2 hour to climb that mountain side and kill the elk. Which he did. He came back out in the dark. That is how some kill elk while the rest of us stumble around and if we are lucky we also will kill some times. The elk hunters do it year after year.

Find the best hunter you can and pay him for some on the job training. He can show you the how but you must do the doing. The hardest work you will ever love.

I read in a hunting rag a while back an article written by a well known writer/hunter that he was watching a herd of elk when a big cat (as in D9) came up a road the elk looked up then kept on grazing when he went down the same road in his truck the elk vamoosed. They quickly learn which sounds are dangerous and which sounds are OK.

Don't give the road hunters any ideas, or they'll show up in D9's.

Whoops gave away my secret, dang... have to learn to keep my fingers off the keyboard.

PS they don't mind the 500 gallon tanker to keep the D9 fueled up too much either.

Goll damb boys! Have YOU ever been out hunting and all of a sudden the hear on your neck stands up and goe's to your head? Just a guess but I bet elk are same-same.Kawi

For me it happens in a city.

Very seldem woods, or city but!? Kawi

An old bull can be pretty smart.

The ones that used to give me fits were the old-bitch lead cows. After our paid hunters were all filled-up and happily gone, I used to make it my goal to kill one of those wise fourty year old buggers.

And I would, but it was a struggle. They'd always be "grinders;" sausage, pepperoni and hamburger.

Then, we'd kill a bull calf for our steak meat. They are "round" when viewed from stem or stern. Head shot and you've got some real eating meat.

The bulls, especially old bulls, tend to be pretty darned smart, but they are also rare, so that makes them more difficult.

For my money, it's the wise ancient herd leader, the lead cow with four decades of experience under her belt that is the smartest elk of all.

Funny thing. Occasionally, I've had a bunch of guided hunters lined up on a herd of elk and I'd ask them if I could brain the lead cow. When I explained the situation, they'd always say "Yes." I'd blow her brains or carotids out and she'd dump right there ... the remainder of the herd would not know what to do.

Their leader was gone and they'd stand for a little, or mill around and stand. Meanwhile, my guys would kill what they needed to. And maybe I'd be asked to help if a guy or two had problems getting their cows to stay down.

Kill the lead cow and you're Golden.

God Bless,

Steve

I had an interesting experience this year; the day after filling my tag, we were sitting around our small camp, not long after sunrise, drinking our cups of hot coffee and heard a series of bugles. It was clear they were getting closer so we moved to where we could get a glimpse of them. We were camped in a treeline just off a small lake and a field that was ~250 yards across. From directly downwind, and tucked in some small trees, we watched as ~10 elk, mostly cows, but 2 spikes and a smallish bull, entered the field on the far right side. I could see where they wanted to cross the field right to left and head towards some private land. The herd bull was still bugling away but we could not see him. The small herd stopped about 90 yards into the field waiting for the bull. The bull made it to the treeline but would not enter the field. Just once, he trotted into the field and circled around a single tree that stuck out and then he went immediately back into the trees. I could watch him with the binos as he hung back about 20 yards inside the trees. He was bugling away the whole time. The herd started to continue across the field a few times but seemed to respond to his screams by pausing. Finally, the old bull, he was a nice big 6x6, much larger than the bull I shot, turned to his right and skirted the field staying well within the treeline. The herd took a right turn and met back up with him in the woods and they continued on their way remaining in the cover. It was an interesting observation to see him clearly dictate the movement of the group, and he wanted nothing to do with the open space. Not sure if 'smart' is the correct term, but that bull demonstrated some good survival instincts or skills.

I get it when I read your posts.

The lead cow is the last elk i'd kill, unless you want the meat. I don't like sausage, or jerky.