Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Browning T Bolt Opinions

think the price you are looking at is about $100 too much.

Thanks to all who responded. Yes, Bricktop, I was thinking the same way as you (scary maybe :D), I have a Remington 581L that is a tack driver, but it lacks class and style. If the Browning can outshoot the 581L, I will be amazed.

When I stopped by the gun shop yesterday evening, the rifle sang a siren song. I was able to resist, so far, but I can't get away from the idea of a T Bolt to finish my days with. If there were any leftys in my family to pass it on to, I am sure I would get it. If it is still there when I go back in a couple of weeks, I will probably get it anyway.

I'm a righty and have no problem working a straight bolt with my off hand. Its a non factor at the bench. Not that big of a deal while afield either.

However, I had a wood stocked varmint 17 HMR that I sent packing because I couldn't get it to group any better than 1.5"+ no matter what I tried. The trigger wasn't terrible, but combined with the lightweight of the rifle itself it didn't do much to aid accuracy. Sent it packing and picked up a CZ 453 Varmint and got much better accuracy. I like the looks and feel of a T-bolt but my particular example left me unimpressed in the accuracy department - everything else was great.

Whatever your alleged accuracy ills, the CZ is not even in the same league -- nor GAME -- as the T-Bolt. The T-Bolt was designed for scope use from the get-go, the CZ wasn't and scoping one is a minor pain in the ass. You're either stuck mounting something WAY too damned high or using something like Millet mounts (which SUCK). And don't even think about using a scope with a "normal" sized ocular bell on a CZ; i.e. a non-rimfire-specific scope. Then there's the matter of the triggers. Whatever faults you believe the T-Bolt possesses in that area, the CZ's is absolutely atrocious with a substantial amount of take up and heavy let off. And yeah, I've read all of the half-assed "fixes" and they're exactly that -- half-assed.

You get what you pay for. The Browning is well-made, capable of great accuracy, and has a company who will (mostly) stand behind their product.

The CZ is a cheap bolt action rimfire that takes a good deal of polish to bring it to the same level as the Browning. I briefly had a CZ and sold it in favor of the Browning.

got a leupold 6-18X40 vx II on a little cz 452 no problem

If Browning would have just not used all that plastic in the new T-bolts.

Whatever your alleged accuracy ills, the CZ is not even in the same league -- nor GAME -- as the T-Bolt. The T-Bolt was designed for scope use from the get-go, the CZ wasn't and scoping one is a minor pain in the ass. You're either stuck mounting something WAY too damned high or using something like Millet mounts (which SUCK). And don't even think about using a scope with a "normal" sized ocular bell on a CZ; i.e. a non-rimfire-specific scope. Then there's the matter of the triggers. Whatever faults you believe the T-Bolt possesses in that area, the CZ's is absolutely atrocious with a substantial amount of take up and heavy let off. And yeah, I've read all of the half-assed "fixes" and they're exactly that -- half-assed.

You get what you pay for. The Browning is well-made, capable of great accuracy, and has a company who will (mostly) stand behind their product.

The CZ is a cheap bolt action rimfire that takes a good deal of polish to bring it to the same level as the Browning. I briefly had a CZ and sold it in favor of the Browning.

Dont know who pizzed in your Wheaties - just gave an honest assessment of my sample of 1 T-bolt. In the future I'll just defer to your superior knowledge and bow out of any conversation where we have differing opinions.

Whatever your alleged accuracy ills, the CZ is not even in the same league -- nor GAME -- as the T-Bolt. The T-Bolt was designed for scope use from the get-go, the CZ wasn't and scoping one is a minor pain in the ass. You're either stuck mounting something WAY too damned high or using something like Millet mounts (which SUCK). And don't even think about using a scope with a "normal" sized ocular bell on a CZ; i.e. a non-rimfire-specific scope. Then there's the matter of the triggers. Whatever faults you believe the T-Bolt possesses in that area, the CZ's is absolutely atrocious with a substantial amount of take up and heavy let off. And yeah, I've read all of the half-assed "fixes" and they're exactly that -- half-assed.

You get what you pay for. The Browning is well-made, capable of great accuracy, and has a company who will (mostly) stand behind their product.

The CZ is a cheap bolt action rimfire that takes a good deal of polish to bring it to the same level as the Browning. I briefly had a CZ and sold it in favor of the Browning.

The one T Bolt I owned didn't impress me accuracy wise. It was a very nice looking rifle, but just didn't shoot that great. Every CZ I've owned or shot has impressed me with good if not excellent accuracy though. I've also never had any issues with mounting scopes on CZ rifles. I have CZ's scoped with various Bushnell Elites, Leupolds, and Nikon Monarch scopes. For actual use, I wouldn't trade any of my CZ's for a T Bolt. Now if I want good looks as well as accuracy, I grab a 54 actioned Anschutz.

I think you can tell any story you want. Looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, tastes like bullshit.

It's not an opinion, it's not a straight forward process of scope mounting on a CZ. That's a fact. As much as I hate to use an Internet message board as a point of reference, the fact that the girls over at rimfirecentral.com have compiled a multi-page list of how to mount a scope on a CZ for multiple mount/scope combinations says a hell of a lot. This is a point that seems to escape you: a CZ452 costs roughly $400, yet it will require a small amount of tinkering to mount a scope, the mount rail is of an inconsistent dimension (the CZ452 American is supposed to be 3/8", but is often more like 10mm or larger), the trigger needs work, and the trigger guard is a crudely formed piece of sheet metal. Iwould rather spend $700 or so right up front, mount a scope, and start shooting without trying to assemble a Rubik's cube of mount bases, rings, and scope. And then apply a half-assed fix to work over the trigger.

I guess the rest of the world is wrong other than one idiot posting about the vast superiority of the T Bolt.

I bought a cz 452 in the american model. I will say that accuracy wise its a heck of a shooter in the .17hmr. I am very pleased with it.
All of the points you made are valid from the experiance I have had with mine. But none a big enough issue for me to abandon it as my favorite small game rifle.

Bricktop, Your immature idiot who's shown in multiple profanity laced posts that anytime someone doesn't agree your opinion is 100% right, they obviously are crazy. I'm guessing you're 18 to 25 with a limited education and real world experience, but plenty of experience pretending to be a tough guy on the internet.

You just proved my point...........again. Please keep sharing your wisdom and education.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but here's what some other folks think:

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=127128

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1582907

http://boardreader.com/thread/CZ_455_vs_Browning_T_Bolt_6qsjiX2q3c.html

And this is proof of what, exactly, [bleep]? That you've managed to round up a few fellow circle-jerkers? And no, ignorant dickheads like you have no opinion worth sharing.

Ramble on minimum wage employee. Your ignorance keeps shinning through. You're burning the keyboard up in your mobile home.

No rambling, mucho mojo went over your empty little head. The meaning of "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" still escapes your dumbass. Dumbass.

I'm sure whatever your parents bought you was a nice rifle, but they really need to monitor your internet use. Hopefully you aren't typing this from your job at Burger King. I wouldn't want to see you get fired.

Have a couple old Belgium T bolts and like them quite a bit.
Acquired 2 NIB T bolts , couple years ago, in a collection buyout. Was real,pleased to have 2 NIB T bolts in the mix. One was varmint flavor one was standard.
The movement in the triggers when safety applied was disconcerting to say the least. Pulled gun apart and looked at the triggers ..made me laugh. Internet searches addressed this issue, with notes on correcting the problem.
I have replaced a lot of rifle triggers for improvement. Not going to put any money in this gun .
I traded both away without shooting.
My rimfire dollars go into Annies, Steyrs, Model 52's and many others.
Don't feel I missed anything.
Cisco

Once again, you're trying to derail the thread because you're unable to defend any of your staked positions. Sorry, little man, YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Allow me to revisit the items that you want to ignore, dumbass. Shall we?

The CZs have a very high bolt lift, meaning clearance of a scope's ocular bell is going to be an issue. You'll either need to get a scope with a sufficiently small ocular bell, locate a base and ring combination that will raise the scope high enough to clear the bolt knob or use a scope with a tube (and eye relief) long enough to permit mounting forward enough to clear the bolt knob. (I can tell you for a FACT that a Leupold Vari-XIIc 2x7 and Talley rings will NOT permit enough bolt clearance, though a Leupold Rimfire scope of any variety and Talleys will.)

Then there's the matter of CZ's dovetail rail, to which a scope mount must attach. It's nominally supposed to be 3/8 on an inch (0.375") on the CZ 452 American, but it's very likely 10mm. Or 11mm. Or 13mm. Or something altogether different.

Does any of this make any sense to you, little man? Any sense AT ALL? This is why mounting a scope on a CZ is a minor pain in the ass.

A T-Bolt has no such scope mounting issues.

Then there's the matter of the CZ trigger. Out of the box, it sucks. Period. Exclamation point. The "fixes" on "the internets" are half-assed. At best. Some people are satisfied with the outcome of shimming with rubber washers; I am not. The triggers have a lot of take up slack and a gritty, heavy let off. You can either expend man-hours of your own applying one of these fixes or install a Timney unit -- which requires inletting of the stock.

No such issue with the T-Bolt.

Has ANY of this turned on a light in your dim little brain yet? For the $200 or so extra of a T-Bolt, I get a rifle to which mounting a scope is not an issue and the trigger is relatively good. Savvy. THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR."

Keep rambling Burger King king boy. Hopefully you'll get the promotion to head fry cook and you can buy another rifle

I just enjoy listening to you spew your ignorance. As I wrote before, you're young, limited education, probably a low paying job, and unhappy with your life in general. Your one outlet is spewing hate on the internet and thinking that anyone who doesn't believe your opinion is always correct get called names and has to read your profanity laced ramblings. The internet allows you to be just as educated or tough as you want to claim to be. Anyone can have a preference, but to state as fact that one choice is without a doubt highly superior to another just shows your limited mental capacity.

I rufflfed [bleep] feathers , BFD.
The T bolts did NOT Qualify for my shooting after laughing at the [bleep] mexican trigger group.
Opinions are like azzholes and you are the biggest azzhole here. My internet search was for info on the [bleep] trigger and I found plenty.
You like the T Bolt , good for you , prolly all you are qualified to have , prolly all you can afford. A daggoned Browning T [bleep] Bolt.!!!!WOW
Go [bleep] yourself , [bleep].
Your friend in firearms
Cisco

The CZ aren't that difficult to mount a scope on. It's not rocket science.

The CZ stock trigger isn't great, but again it's not rocket science to polish the parts or use various shim ticks, etc.

Lastly they're as a general rule very accurate rifles. Tack ten randomly chosen CZ's and ten T-Bolts and you'll mostly likely find the CZ's winning in the accuracy dept. Everyone has a story of on Remchester Special that shoots one hole groups at X yards, but I'm talking accuracy over a wide range of rifles. Maybe I had a bad one, but they don't have the accuracy reputation that CZ has.

I could fill those comments full of profanity, but it wouldn't make them any more effective.

.....
Then there's the matter of the CZ trigger. Out of the box, it sucks. Period. Exclamation point. The "fixes" on "the internets" are half-assed. At best. Some people are satisfied with the outcome of shimming with rubber washers; I am not. The triggers have a lot of take up slack and a gritty, heavy let off. You can either expend man-hours of your own applying one of these fixes or install a Timney unit -- which requires inletting of the stock.
....

Rifle Basix ... Very nice in my rifle

More people obviously not up to Burger King boy's IQ level. Or perhaps just more lies from other folks. I can just hear his response "They're all @#$@#% Lies! Lies! Those stupid *&#$"

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481745

"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR,"

You sure do. As high as you regard the T-bolt, it's not for everyone and it's expensive...meaning it's "over priced" to many people.

I do think CZ makes a nice rifle for the money...even with it's quirks. However, I don't consider the Browning better, just different and with more polish.

D

I don't know much about the things I post. I like shiny things.

You friend in firearms
Cisco

[/quote]So am I to feel celebrated now that I've been referenced by the sodomites on the esteemed pages of rimfirecentral.com? And FYI, I have yet to state or infer in any post regarding CZs that "they just aren't that accurate." That's your f*cking, non-reading ass projecting your own little fears and hangups, jut like you've been doing with your comments regarding my character and lineage vice discussing the actual subject.

At any rate, you keep avoiding the question I'm asking, do you or do you not understand the phrase "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR," yes or no?

I have been intrigued by the T-Bolt concept since its inception, waaaay back when. This, er, discussion got me to thinking about it again. Aside from a pile of run-of-the-mill .22's I keep around for sentimental reasons, my go-to rifles for serious shooting/hunting are a M1922M2 Springfield and a custom Martini 12/15. Frankly both are getting a bit heavy for my gimpy self to lug around the woods all day and my thoughts are turning toward a new lighter, but accurate, rifle. That said:
A) how much do these things weigh (wood stock version- humor me my preference for wood)?
B) what kind of accuracy can I expect out of the box, with say premium match ammo? (The Springfield and Martini have me spoiled with their sub-�" groups at 50M.)
C) how effortless is the bolt operation? (I know not to expect the ease/quickness of an Olympic Biathlon thumb-cocker, but is it a step up from 'normal' bolt operation?

My inclination at this point is to build a M52 Sporter with a lightweight barrel, out of a 52A target rifle that is tempting me at a local shop, but I just don't need any more projects at the moment.

I hope you don't use that language at Burger King. You'll never make shift manager like that!

" You get what you pay for" yeap it could be proformance or looks. Browning looks better you bet no contest, proformance ? dought it. For non coustom built rimfire the 452 is the 2nd most popular next to Anshcutz there is for silhoutte matches , that demandes shootability and accuracy thus meaning geting scopes set up to be shooter freindly and accurate and good triggers .
I sometimes shoot one and wife does a lot a 452 with a 6-18X40 A.O. that old BT says won't work!! It will shoot almost as good as my costum built 40X, trigger I have 2 springs for 2# and a 6 oz. ( now I did polish the trigger ) and have bedded the gun and done it for way under the 2-300 buck that BT said it would take more like and extra 30 bucks invested.
Oh yea that said scope set where it is the obj would hit the barrel before the eye peice would contact the bolt. But if I or the mrs. were a scope craweler(meaning if it were mounted too far foward) the bolt might hit the eyepeice but most scope crawlers are either inexperanced or bad shooters

Bolt open all the way lots of clearance

Does this look way to high?

Love to meet you in back of the old trailer park mofo come on track me down take some travlen pics to post on your way
!!

And you keep avoiding the question I'm asking, do you or do you not understand the phrase "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR," yes or no?

Only an idiot would accept that statement as always factual. I guess we know where that leaves you.

I can give you the weight of my synthetic .22 LR version with Leupold 2x7 Rimfire scope in Browning/Talley rings and bases as a ballpark figure. It comes in at 5.5 pounds on my postal scale. As for accuracy, I don't have a target handy, but I shot a coyote from a pond dam at an honest 125 yards with one round. Surely that would meet your standards. Effort of operation is fairly light, though I could hang a weight from the bolt and measure the actual force needed to cycle it.

But if I or the mrs. were a scope craweler(meaning if it were mounted too far foward) the bolt might hit the eyepeice but most scope crawlers are either inexperanced or bad shooters

Your might need to explain that one to me.
The length of pull on any particular gun is what determines the placement of my scopes on all my guns. It is what it is.

" You get what you pay for" yeap it could be proformance or looks. Browning looks better you bet no contest,

I personaly don't agree with this either. The t-bolt looks like an automatic to me. When it come to accuracy does it really matter? No,....but I prefer the tradition look of the lift handle on a bolt action gun...just my own preference.

some people like to keep their head more upright and the scope mounted a bit futer back and some seem to lay on the stock a bit harder and have the scope futher foward. If you go to silhoutte matches (or other offhand types of shooting) you will see generally the best shooters don't "crawl" up to their scope

I agree evryone will be a bit different do to body build how every most people are more comfertable and natural with the head held more upright and not "pushing" out in front of them.

I don't know much about controlled shooting matches.So i reckon maybe the inexperiance part might apply to me there. But I do know about killing stuff in real life hunting situations. And when I shoulder a rifle for a shot(off hand or otherwise), there is no consideration of the scope at all other than setting the cross hairs on the animal.

If I have to adjust my head OR even think about correcting the view thru the scope beyong my natural shouldering of the rifle, then the scope is not in the correct position on the gun.
As i said, it is what it is and it is determined by the lop of any particular rifle...and it might not be the same for me as it is for you.

Yes or no, do you or do you not understand the phrase "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR?" Yes or no?

Let's get this back to your level so you can understand it. When you're flipping those burgers, does the spatula that costs more mean it's always better? Or perhaps the QVC spatula costs more because it's better looking or you're paying for the name.

Shut up Bricktop and back to the fries before you burn them.

Do you or do you not understand what the phrase "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" means? Yes or no?

Because you pay more for something doesn't mean it's always better. Only a fool believes that's always true. "Yes or no?"

Go back to flipping your burgers teenager.

i saw a t bolt yesterday with a maple stock for $699 NIB. what a nice little gun. the only thing i hate about those is the cheapo looking gold trigger. if i had an extra 7 bills though i'd have bought it and given it a go.