Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Suppressed Rifle in Military Caliber?

I am an avid hunter and firearm enthusiast; however the recent political and world climate has prompted me to research additional firearm purchases. It is my hope that this community can provide me with some additional information.
As follows are my perceived needs for this 'build'

1. Semi-Automatic rifle in common military caliber. (Not 223 -Documented lack of stopping power and penetration)

2. Commonly available ammunition (Under normal circumstances)

3. Extremely reliable

4. Ability to consistently and accurately engage targets out to approximately 300 meters.

5. Be able to accept a suppressor (Perhaps with a selective gas block similar to an AR-10 that allows the action to cycle/not cycle)

6. Be able to accept iron sights and optics (Thinking ACOG or optics in scout rifle configuration)

After a fair degree of my own research I believe an M1A or perhaps an AR-10 could fit the bill. However I am concerned about the weight of the M1A. Any potential thoughts or solutions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time

You are looking for an FN SCAR-17S. Good luck finding one, and when you do, even more luck finding magazines. That rifle with 10 mags, is likely worth $3500+ in today's market.

The M14 is a hasbeen. All the milspec forged TRW parts are long gone. It was ALWAYS a dirt funnel and never reliable in a dusty, dirty environment.

Most AR10's are quite unreliable, as they've never had military R&D behind them. The Larue ($$$$$$$) might be the exception.

I think you really don't know of what you speak concerning the AR platform. A high quality AR, loaded with the right ammo (this is the crux of the matter) will handle deer and men quite effectively.

#1 is going to keep you with a .223 / .308. And I expect you'll get a lot of argument here about the (not 223) statement.

I'd get an AR with a suppressor and a 1-4 optic.

You need to prioritize those criteria as there is no clear winner. Your options are AR-15 varients in 5.56 Nato, AK-47 varirients in 7.62X39, or some sort of 7.62X51 but there is no clear way to go as the most optic capable is an AR-10 but it's not a standardized design with different companies buidling lowers for different mags and the FN, G3/CETME, M-14 are really not designed for optics.

If you don't alread have an AR-15 in 5.56, you really owe yourself to have at least one good one. The reason our military has kept with the M-16 since it's adoption is that while it is not perfect in all roles, it has served well meeting an entire spectrum of criteria.

Whatever you buy, They will know you are shooting at them, the suppressor just helps you not lose your hearing quite so fast.

The M1 a and the AR 10 are both heavy bastidges.

The sig patrol in 308 has an adjustable Gas Block so you can shoot subsonic. I load .308 win and 300 blackout subsonic. Both are very quiet. The action cycling on the AR makes more noise than what is coming out the barrel and the smack of the bullet on a deer is way louder than what's coming out the barrel. 300 meters subsonic is a push. 200 is doable with accuracy all day long.

I know a LOT of guys in the military. The ones I know are a bit above average though.

I've spoken with them at length, and almost down to the last one... the 5.56 statement doesn't hold water. Especially with 77s.

I"ve shot a LOT of game with 75s and 77s over the yeras. Yeah the non hunting BTHP ones. And I know another guy that ran flat 55 ball FMJ. All of the above kill REALLY well. In fact I have never lost an animla to any of the above. I did to a 69 but only due to hitting a vine and deflecting to a leg bone.

But beyond that if 308 is the key, then an AR10 or a bolt gun. Not an M1A. We have 3 and they are a pain to maintain in top notch RE accuracy and such with bedding and so on.

As noted you will have to have special ammo going REALLY slow for a suppressor to work. So you might consider that range is going to be way limited, probably to 100 ish yards max.

And finally ... common ammo... 5.56 going to trump that all day long IMHO. Though a sub sonic 223 round ain't gonna have much punch either.

All the above points are valid and interesting. I do have an APA (Billeted? Not sure if that is the proper term. But it is a very fine receiver) lower that is crying to be built into something.

308 seems like the more logical choice for my preferences and requirements; and the can could eventually serve dual purpose for a bolt-gun.
Fabrique Nationale have always intrigued me, however their cost is prohibitive.(i.e. could get a GAP for similar money)
However a quality built AR-10 quickly approaches a staggering price point and build time.

Is your lower .308 or .223 length?

Staggering cost is totally subjective. YOu state in these times....

So whats your life really worth is a main question.

Wife wanted a light 357 a while back. Cost me 1000 bucks but she has it and it could save her or my or others lives possibly.

RE cost too... if building an upper, might give White Oak Precision a call... they build top notch, John is a civilian national highpower champion, but they charge for what they do, not their name. IE to me they are making money but not ripping folks off just due to a name.

The do not touch lowers as that requires FFL... which at last point he did nto have or want in IL

Is it a .308 lower? You can use a .30 caliber can on a .223.


Travis

The lower is ar-15 size, however I am keeping it due to the likely sketchy political environment.

Just as some folks will/won't use a car manufacturer because of XY or Z, I will not use a 223 caliber because I don't feel it can meet my needs.


I have shot a good friends AR-10 in 260 and enjoyed it, however I felt as if I was carrying a small child on my shoulder. Is there a more useful solution? Notwithstanding that most things are a compromise/trade-off.

Like I already told you George, you want a SCAR -17S, but you ain't likely gonna get one. Get yourself a quality 5.56 upper, a Dillon 550B in order to keep it fed, and learn to run it, and run it well. You should have that ANYWAY, even if you ain't got a SCAR, which you don't.

You stated your needs and those needs can easily be met with the .223/5.56. But if you have to have something different which to me it sounds like then 6.5Grendel.

none of our business but if you can't get it done to a measly azz short range 300 yards with a 5.56 you might want to revaluate your skill set.

If you don't like the weight of the AR 10, then the solution is the 223 in reality that makes most sense, but dno't discount all the other rounds that can run in the 15 platform like 6.5, 6.8, 6mm WOA and then there are the bigger like 458 socom, 450 bushy, 50 beowulf... those start slow to begin with so are easier to load subsonic to boot. But for SHTF I personally would still take a 5.56 wiht 77s.... you don't want to get hit with one of those.

Much like the Native Alaskan women who killed a Grizzly with a .22, just because something can be done, does not mean it should be done.

MN KS WY CO ME and I am confident other states do not allow the usage of 223 on deer. Nuff said

Other calibers for either the ar-15 or ar-10 platform don't seem to be too readily available. Perhaps Fabrique Nationale, a barrel, and some crisco are in order to solve this issue.

Not to mention these numbers seem lackluster for any sort of ethical behavior
E @ 200 yds
223 Rem. (55 Sp) 648
.223 Rem. (64 Sp) 760

Source Chuck Hawks

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm

Experience trumps numbers but you want military calibers so that's 308 and 223, the decision is not that hard.

I'll do everything I need to do with the .223/5.56 giving bullet choice as the most important consideration.

AR-10's are heavy and not as reliable as AR-15's but LaRues version and LMT's new 308 would be worth looking into. But then again you don't want to spend the money they cost either.

So it looks like you're out of luck.

You hotload that little 223 case with a 77gr SMK and it'll put a man's dick in the dirt, post haste.

Here is your plan dude. Get yourself a 556 upper, or two. A pinned 14.5in with an Aimpoint on it is really handy. An 18in SPR upper with a 1-4x scope gives that rifle a whole new dimension.

THEN, get yourself a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle (308 or course). Put a 1-6x variable or maybe a fixed 6x like a Leupold 6x42 with the long range dots. If you've got deep pockets, just put the same glass on a Steyr Scout. RSR Group (wholesalers) usually has a few in stock. You can bugout if need be with both of these rifles, keeping the one most useful for your current environment at hand.

The 7# 308 gas gun that drives nails at 200yd is a figment of gun designers imaginations. The SCAR 17S is a bold step in that direction, but it ain't quite there yet.

I'll only ask... how much game and how many people have you shot with the 5.56?

Oh yeah.. and the longest shot I've taken on a deer was 556 yards laser ranged. Ate VERY well.