Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Shilen Barrels

I know of one old BR smith here in Texas that refused to use Shilen tubes after some bad CS experience with them concerning a barrel that wasn't up to standards. I used what he recomended which was Kreiger but his other 2 choices were Hart and Pac-Nor (which I've heard mixeds reviews of but he stood behind them). I think all makers can send out a bad tube at any given time, it's how they stand behind their product that makes the company.

I think there is more behind the thread and chamber to what you are asking than cut vs button accuracy. Barrel life depends on treatment and cleaning from what I have been told by guys that shoot rifles like I do pistols. Get it hot and keep beating on it and they won't last as long. I have had a few Shilen barrels and just got a quarter bore in the mail a few weeks ago. I will try to keep it long enough to break it in this time. You will be fine as long as the guy running the lathe knows how to make shavings.

I've used about half a dozen Shilens and have never had any issues with them. They all shot great out of the gate, cleaned easily.

My late gunsmith used either Krieger or Shilens for his builds. He was a BR competitior and used Shilens on his own competition stuff. Even had a "world record" posted at one time.

In most professions, folks truly serious about their work don't do things half-azzed or to build garbage. For some reason, most barrel makers seem to fit this category of "serious"....

A really good smith still needs a really good barrel to make magic........

I didn't know Shilen made air gun barrels.

Lol, that was the only crooked barrel
Pic I found on google images.

We can agree to disagree. But 300,000 rounds never showed a differing trend at all. Every last button tube died at least 1000 rounds earlier than every last cut tube. Bad examples included.

And then there was teh one button that died around 2500 rounds of 223, vs the cut that lasted over 12,000 rounds. To be fair both were probably the extreme ends of quality though.

And in the M14 days, every last shooter we shot with that knew anything about anything, always said a douglas dies 1000-1500 rounds quicker than a Krieger.

That being said it may well have something to do with powders, charges, bullet shapes( IE shooting a LOT of VLD stuff over the years vs flat base BR type bullets?) and so on.

I simply have no desire anymore, especially after my last douglas, to ever do button agian.

That being said I do have a shilen on a 6 mm WOA, it was pulled off a 6x45 that had a 1000 or so rounds as I recall, but its only got about 200 rounds down it and hasn't been shot in a few years... its a hunting gun but it was great on accuracy.

If I were to shoot a Shilen these days on a 223, I have NO real doubts accuracy wise as long as its a select one, but I also know that at around 3000 rounds give or take its going to probably be done with. Which isn't an issue for most folks.

PS we do shoot what amounts to timed fire strings in our game, and that may have something to do with it too? Half the shots fired are timed. And the other half, ofter are fired 20-22 rounds in 10 minutes or less depenidng....

BTW there re comments on pac nor...

I shoot them, they are not generally as accurate as my Kriegers or Rocks are. But they provided a barrel in 223 that did what I wanted it to do and no others made same.

My only deal there I knew they wouldn't last that long, and they didn't And I knew I'd get a bummer now and then... and I did... for the cost it wasn't such a bad deal really, just sell it to someone not so picky, but over many Kriegers we had one about circa 96 IIRC, that would do no better than about .75 moa day in and day out at 600 yards and closer. Lived with it till it was relegated to a practice tube. In the same time period we had another Krieger on a juniors gun that I wished I had. I shot a number of 5 shot groups at 600 that were 1.5 inches appx give or take and one that scared 1.25 inches... ( groups that large we measured with a tape for a rough idea. Thats also OD to OD group size)

Jeff

Fullbore, service rifle, and TR shooters have always considered cut rifled barrels to last longer and it is difficult to argue with this. In the short range BR game, the difference is hard to see simply because a barrel which has slipped to 1/4 moa is no good while a 1/4 moa barrel is exceptional in any other game. Different requirements result in different conclusions.
In a hunting rifle, accurate life is likely to be longer than the rifle is going to be shot regardless of manufacturing method. In addition, most gun nuts will be unlikely to keep a rifle long enough to wear out the barrel.
I have noticed that many gunsmith recommendations will vary according to what barrel they are pushing at the time. A maker of cut-rifled barrels will seldom concede that a buttoned barrel can even be acceptable. It seems that all barrelmakers like to blow a little smoke from time to time.
The original poster asked if there was any particular reason to avoid Shilen barrels. I would say "no". I would say the same thing about Douglas, Krieger, Bartlien, Rock, Brux, McGowen, Pac-nor, Smith, Gaillard, Hart, Border, and a host of others. GD

rost495, you obviously are convinced that your's is biggest. Tell me what makes a cutrifled barrel last longer. What makes this happen?

That just cracked me up....don't know why it seemed so funny to me...maybe because I'm in both the group that don't know and the one that don't care. Thanks Bob!

Ok Butch, you don't need to start with smart azz. I never was, or never intended to be smart azz either. If you took it that way, I apologize up front.

I simply put out what I've seen. Its like chronos to me. They don't tell me much other than speeds. They sure don't tell you what your group is going to be. Maybe up close it does, but not out at 300 and beyond.

What I've seen, is what I"ve seen.

There is no need to tell you WHY. Hell I don't know WHY? Really what difference does it make. My mother is the same way though, she has to know why. IMHO why can waste a lot of valuable time and in the end gives you no advantage.

But tell me something, in 300K rounds of shooting 223 in competition, that means I've gone through something like 50 barrels between kids, the wife and I.

And in that 50 barrels I've probably ended up at about 1/3 button and 2/3 cut.

Numbers simply don't lie do they?

You tell me what you think I have wrong and why in your eyes mine is biggest AND I'm wrong?

This was not to be a pissin match. Never intended that but folks get their panties in a wad.

What I can't stand is someone coming along and saying emphatically that what I've seen over that many barrels is a lie. I'm not the only one to see this.

Basically you've just called some of the best highpower shooters in the USA liers.

And FWIW I don't care whos barrel I shoot, or what type it is. I only ask for two things. It to perform to my specs as far as accuracy goes and to get the best life out of it. With Pac Nor I can get one but not the other. But I have to settle for shorter life because I can't get the performance out of other barrel brands for the specific rounds I shot at the time.

Heck I'd love to shoot a cheaper barrel, have it as accurate and last as long as a more expensive one...

as to the answer to the question that I don't care about... the only thing I could guess, that in cutting, both the lands and grooves end up more precise and sharper to start with , and very possibly deeper. I"ve no clue as I noted. I've never researched depth, shape etc.... The answers to that don't win matches.

Jeff

You're right, you have no clue.

Ok then, I, with evidently no damn clue as I must be ignorant and not know what I"m talking about, have given evidence.

You have only said folks that have my opinion are stupid basically.

Give us your take.

You are a smith.

How many cut barrels and how many buttoned barrels have you put on Service/match rifles and what is the round count to death?

That will show the light here and maybe I'll learn something new.

I really figure its a dimensional thing more than anything.

But since you seem to know what goes on and why, enlighten us.

I"m always willing to see the other side.

No one beats the Shilen drum like Butch

You're not willing to see anything. Why would make a cutrifle barrel last longer than a button rifled barrel? Just answer that.

Who was the old fool that said I trumpeted Shilen barrels? I do have a Shilen barrel blank that will be my next BR barrel. Haven't used one in a few years because everybody said they were a little off. I haven't found a cutrifled barrel better yet. My last cutrifled barrel that shot great was a Rock Creek and I use it for my 30BR.

I don't shoot 300,000 rounds a year. I would be a better shooter if I did. I also know nothing about belly shooters. I have never passerd judgement on them either.

you don't read or comprehend at all do you.

300K in my life of competition. That answers a lot right there.

Carry on.

I'm with you Jeff. All the high master shooters that I know that wear out several barrels a year claim that cut rifle barrels last longer with a significantly higher round count. Never heard a claim of better accuracy just longer useable life. All I know have tried enough of both to figure it out the hard way. Hopefully I can rebarrel enough one day to confirm this myself.

Shilen is the only barrel made that airgauges within 3 thousandths. However most gunsmiths can and do [bleep] up perfectly good barrels. In light of that fact it never ceases to amuse me how most seem to fumble around in the dark.....really not even so much as looking for a clue.....mostly because they really haven't even the slightest inclination that there may even be one. Perhaps someone would care to extrapolate just exactly how my gunsmith can get a shilen to shoot 3/4 inch 300 yd groups every time while whoever your [bleep] up Smith is can't seem to squeeze a 1" 100 yd group out of a shilen barrel. Hint!!!
The fix for your perfectly good [bleep] up barrel is to send it to my gunsmith instead of the one you've been useing who's blowing nothing more than a whole lot of smoke up your ass and he'll fix the [bleep] up peace of schit and send it back to you a shooter.

Shod

Interesting, assuming you are addressing me, that my last douglas that isnt' more than about an MOA or just under barrel, was done by the exact same as my last Rock. And the 2 rocks that come from him are under .5 moa.

I have never said that Shilens don't shoot.

I said buttons don't last as long as cut.

but then some are just hot heads, and don't comprehend.