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I just don't believe some of these stated figures, or I have a slow gun -or- I have a slow chrono.
I am at 4266fps with 40's out of my 22-250AI before I started feeling a stiff bolt from a 24" barrel.
I am at 3850 with 40's out of my 223AI with a 22" barrel before I started feeling pressure.
Your numbers are about what I've seen as well (except the 22-250 AI was a Swift). 4225 for a 25" Swift, 3850 for a 22" 223 AI. Yeah, those figures (of Ackman's) are ridiculous. I get a bit better than 3900 fps out of my 223AI with 40's and a 22" barrel. I am leaning on it about as hard as I care to. I don't doubt that can be improved on with longer barrels and at the edge loads. But 4200 with 40's out of a 223AI is in no way a balanced description of what to expect from a 223AI and 40's. Always funny when someone calls bs if they're not getting the same numbers......since they're not doing it, somebody else can't do it. Nothing ridiculous about those numbers. Targets are all filed with chrono tape attached. Pact Pro chrono checked against my friend's Oehler 35.....within 20fps of each other. There's nothing magic, just brass/powder/primer and chamber, anyone can do it. I know others who are. Instead of calling bs, tweek your own stuff and get it working better. *** I have 4 - 223AI's all 14" twist, chambered with the same tight reamer - .250"nk 0 freebore. The 3 that I've shot.....25" Schneider, 24" Douglas/Virgin Valley, and cheap 24" A&B. The same 40gr load that's 4100fps in the Schneider, is only 3950 in the Douglas and 3900 in the A&B. I'd expect a top-quality match barrel - or one with a properly sized bore - to equal the performance of that Schneider. The 22-250AI is a 28" Hart and another 25" Lothar Walther is just as fast, both 14 twist. The 257Wby is a 12 twist 29" Hart. The 6mmAI is Krieger. All chambers are semi-tight neck with 0 freebore and about .010" longer than the brass. Well spec'd chamber and barrel make a difference. What is COAL? Using 2.26 the lowest pressure reading I can get a 40gr bullet going 4200 fps from a 223Ai is in the 78Kpsi range. You might be gaining a tad of capacity seating them longer but 40gr bullets are pretty damn short so I do not see a huge gain there. You sooting 550? A tight chamber might make a difference in masking pressure signs but it does not lessen pressures. I do not care in you run them in the 100K pressure range but you peaked my curiosity. Maybe you can tell us a bit more about this magic load like bullet powder etc. I just went with 40gr bergers a different bullet might make a difference.
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Here is proof from my 22-250AI, 24" 12 twist pacnor barrel and 40 gr Sierras. I am about 3800 with 55gr Bergers out of the same gun. ![[Linked Image]](http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/dogcatcher223AI/chronysm.jpg)
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i was on the reloadersnest i saw a 6 mm class that i liked called a .240 incinarator the data claimed that the speed was to say the the least very fast . But i thought it would burn the throat out quickly. i guess it would be an incinarator if memory right 70 were around 4700 ...
It is better to have it and not need it , than to
need it and not have it ( by master gunsmith & very wise friend )
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6mm Mach IV. I would order barrels two at a time.
Dink
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What is COAL? You sooting 550?
Don't know COAL, I don't measure that......0 freebore, touching the lands a 40BT is about .050" off the neck/shoulder junction. Also I don't shoot 40's in these guns, just wanted to see what they'd do and the guy asked about speed demons. These guns just get 50's. A 50BT is about .030" off the neck/shoulder, 50TNT is .120" up. Sooting 550? I don't know what what you're asking.
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COAL just combined over all length. Was asking whether you were shooting N550 powder which is one of the powders that was at the lowest pressure range to reach 4200 with a berger 40gr. That powder does not work well with the BT.
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[quote=DINK]6mm Mach IV. I would order barrels two at a time.
Dink [/quote
yes that is just what i thought. i do have a 6mm-06 with a 28 douglas xx that shoots 55gr combined tecs at 4248 fps with 55gr of varget and a cci br#2 primer safe in my gun. 1 in12 twist.
It is better to have it and not need it , than to
need it and not have it ( by master gunsmith & very wise friend )
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COAL just combined over all length. I know what COAL is......it's not something I measure.
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Folks will take numbers without taking a lot of factors into consideration:
twist rate
Chamber dimensions
barrel length
Here are some hot rods that I have put together:
22/250 AI, 27" 1-12 twist Hart, 50's at 4150, 55's at 4050 with extrme accuracy in both using Win 760, Fed 210's, Rem and PMC brass. Chamber had 0.2245 throat, and 1 1/2* leade angle, Zero freebore(trapped all the gases behind the bullet).
244 AI(6 Rem AI), 1-14 Shilen select match, 26" long, Minimum spec match chamber with .2435 throat dia, zero freebore. 70g Noslers at 4100 fps shot a tiny ragged hole with Win 760 and 210 primers, 80g Sierra BT Blitz with R#19 shot tiny groups at 3800 fps, Win brass. 60g Sierra's at 4400 fps with win 760 detonated chucks like paint balls on black rocks.
Now, take the same reamer, used in a 1-10 twist Stainless match barrel, 70's velocity dropped to 3850 with extreme accuracy, same length barrel...twist does make a difference.
223 AI with a minimum specm match reamer, zero freebore, I shoot the 50's at 3800 out of a 1-12 twist using N135, IMI brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers...ungodly accurate at 400 yards.
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Was asking whether you were shooting N550 powder which is one of the powders that was at the lowest pressure range to reach 4200 with a berger 40gr. That powder does not work well with the BT. N550 is very slow for that case, I can't imagine using it. People make this into way more than it is......add a little capacity to the 223 you've got a 223AI and another 150-175fps. Same powders for both. Accuracy loads with 40's in a std. .223 can be 4000....I've done it, so have several other people and posted about it on here. The AI is about 1-1/2gr more powder.
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Was asking whether you were shooting N550 powder which is one of the powders that was at the lowest pressure range to reach 4200 with a berger 40gr. That powder does not work well with the BT. N550 is very slow for that case, I can't imagine using it. People make this into way more than it is......add a little capacity to the 223 you've got a 223AI and another 150-175fps. Same powders for both. Accuracy loads with 40's in a std. .223 can be 4000....I've done it, so have several other people and posted about it on here. The AI is about 1-1/2gr more powder. It is very slow for that round, and you probably could not get enough powder in the case to pressure it up. When I asked that I did not even look in the % of case filled it would probably be something like 130% but if you could stuff it in there it would get you to 4200 and stay below 100K pressures and was one of the few powders that would.
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With my 223 AI, 1-12 twist, zero freebore, I got 4170 fps with the 40g Nosler with N133, IMI brass, Rem 7 1/2 very tiny groups, did not have to full length size the brass afterwards. I settled on 28.0-28.5g of N133 with the 50g Nosler at 3800-3850(1 1/2" groups at 400 yards very often).
Qickload obviously has some quirks.
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With my 223 AI, 1-12 twist, zero freebore, I got 4170 fps with the 40g Nosler with N133, IMI brass, Rem 7 1/2 very tiny groups, did not have to full length size the brass afterwards. I settled on 28.0-28.5g of N133 with the 50g Nosler at 3800-3850(1 1/2" groups at 400 yards very often).
Qickload obviously has some quirks. So do some chronographs. Maybe you should invest in pressure trace to what is really going on there.
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I burned out a couple of 6-06 tubes and enjoyed it immensely.
As for right now, a 22-250 AI twisted 1-7 would be fun.......
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Interesting thread...and enjoyable!! Lots of cool cartridges mentioned. As with my driving fast, my need for speed has diminished considerably in the last 30 or so years. Now my idea of driving fast is plowing in 3rd gear. My rifle velocities have also abated...2000-2400 fps is screaming for me these days.
NRA Benefactor 2008
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John 14-6
There is no right way to do a wrong thing
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Im leaning towards a 6MM Ackley improved. If went with a 1-12 or 1-14 twist could shoot 58 gr Vmax over 4200 fps maybe closer to 4300 fps with a 28" barrel.
Now that would put the hurt on a Coyote.
Relive your memories,take a kid hunting and fishing
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Just wondering can you build a 22-6mm ackley? Has anyone ever had one/
That would be a screamer
Relive your memories,take a kid hunting and fishing
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Was asking whether you were shooting N550 powder which is one of the powders that was at the lowest pressure range to reach 4200 with a berger 40gr. That powder does not work well with the BT. N550 is very slow for that case, I can't imagine using it. People make this into way more than it is......add a little capacity to the 223 you've got a 223AI and another 150-175fps. Same powders for both. Accuracy loads with 40's in a std. .223 can be 4000....I've done it, so have several other people and posted about it on here. The AI is about 1-1/2gr more powder. It is very slow for that round, and you probably could not get enough powder in the case to pressure it up. When I asked that I did not even look in the % of case filled it would probably be something like 130% but if you could stuff it in there it would get you to 4200 and stay below 100K pressures and was one of the few powders that would. Seems like you'd know immediately that 550 is no way a powder for the .223 case. This is getting silly.....100K psi....brass is only so strong and starts to fail long before that, someplace around 75Kpsi. Despite what you may think, signs of overpressure show quite readily with AI cartridges. I've been there with other AI cartridges during workup. I've blown many primer pockets but not in one of these. And I've shot 223AI loads continuously in 100+ summer temps with never an overpressure sign, not ever. Stop fooling with QL and actually have a 223AI and shoot it. If you want the cartridge to really do it's thing with 50's or 40's, use a 12-14 twist barrel with a little length to it.
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With my 223 AI, 1-12 twist, zero freebore, I got 4170 fps with the 40g Nosler with N133, IMI brass, Rem 7 1/2 very tiny groups, did not have to full length size the brass afterwards. I settled on 28.0-28.5g of N133 with the 50g Nosler at 3800-3850(1 1/2" groups at 400 yards very often).
Qickload obviously has some quirks. So do some chronographs. What? Keith's been chrono'ing all loads for 30yrs or more. I've been using one since early-mid '90. And there's nothing wrong with them, they both work fine, readings are accurate.
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I use an Ohler 35P.
Data and chamber designs I use were copied from very knowledgable engineers in the gun business, I just used their loading data.
How about this, a 6BR with a 27" barrel, 1-12twist shooting the Nosler 55g at 3900 fps +. At 400 yards, this load out performs all loads with 87g-65g bullets for their accuracy loads. Speed can make up for a lot of BC, to a certain point.
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