|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
Looks like Dodge is stepping up to the plate and building a v-6 diesel engine for their Ram pickups with 3rd quarter release date. I've always wanted a 1/2 ton diesel truck. Ram 1500 diesel
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,906
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,906 |
well, in fairness, GM had a 1/2 ton diesel truck in 1978. The engine (5.7L) was crap tho!!
Ken
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,483
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,483 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
There were also 6.2 Liter half ton GM pickups and Blazers in the 80s.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246 |
I'd like a current-style 4dr Tacoma 4x4 with a stout 4cyl TD and 6spd auto please. Light-colored rubber floors and faux-leather interior would be great. I'll take one in white or tan.
Now with even more aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934 |
"............... 54.5 mpg by 2025 .......". 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,543
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,543 |
There were also 6.2 Liter half ton GM pickups and Blazers in the 80s.
6.5L Turbos in mid-90's. They had them in full-size blazers too, I'd like to have one of them.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
3 liter and 420 ft/lb torque, sounds like a winner! The biggest question is how much will the emissions choke it and cut into the mileage? If they can get mileage in the the high 20's, it'll be a game changer, even at mid 20's it would be a nice rig.
No, I won't be trading in my 2500 5.9 cummins, but I'm glad to see somebody finally is doing what consumers have been asking for years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
Game changer is an understatement! The market for this type of truck is pretty big and they shouldn't have any trouble selling them IF they are designed the right way. I really hate buying first year models of anything but this new Ram is very tempting.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 62 |
That's great, now if they would offer the bigger bed and bigger cab together, it would be a pretty versatile truck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867 |
about time, now to remove all the emissons crap and have an efficient engine
�The constitution of the United States asserts that all power is inherent in the people, that they may exercise it by themselves, that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed!� � Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,404
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,404 |
I'd like a current-style 4dr Tacoma 4x4 with a stout 4cyl TD and 6spd auto please. Light-colored rubber floors and faux-leather interior would be great. I'll take one in white or tan. Hilux with a d4d would be the cat's azz, but we can't have them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
With 1/2 ton V8 gas engine pickups getting around 20 MPG's (HWY) these days. What kind of MPG's would you consider acceptable for this new diesel engine considering diesel is $.60-.70 more a gallon?
Jeep is considering a new Wrangler diesel also. I'm just not sold on the idea yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
With 1/2 ton V8 gas engine pickups getting around 20 MPG's (HWY) these days. What kind of MPG's would you consider acceptable for this new diesel engine considering diesel is $.60-.70 more a gallon?
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday. The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934 |
about time, now to remove all the emissons crap and have an efficient engine Not likely. The EPA has been flexing its muscle in the past few months regarding removing diesel emissions (i.e. DPF, CAT) and are going after the companies that sell the tuning necessary to remove the DPF. Edge just receved a $500K fine and H&S was forced to pull their tuning products that could be used to delete the DPF. The LML Dmax (latest model w/DPF and urea injection) has the ECM "locked" meaning programing such as EFILive can no longer load tunes on the truck's computer. It has gotton to the point where the air leaving these modern diesels is cleaner that the air going in and at the expense of using more fuel. Removing the DPF yields an instant 4-5 mpg gain, a cooler running engine and is no longer a depriment to the longevity of the engine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867 |
what if a company produced and sold old school diesels and refused to pay any fine, imposed by the EPA what could they do? Could said company sell only "under the table" in some State, you can title a "homemade" and curb the whole EPA problem, or couldn't you simply just build old school diesels and retro fit kits for older, EPA exempt vehicles. I would buy a 1976 Ford F250 with a 5.9 diesel
�The constitution of the United States asserts that all power is inherent in the people, that they may exercise it by themselves, that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed!� � Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,001
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,001 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The price of diesel obviously is a detriment. However, if you were to get rid of the EPA, you would see diesels as common here as you do in Europe, Asia, and Australia. They are far more efficient in fuel used and power produced. Keeping the Toyota Hilux out of the USA makes as much sense as all of our plywood and black pipe being labeled 'Made in China'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
America has needed such a truck for a long time. I am surprised by all the discussion but no action, until now. Congratulations to Dodge for stepping up. My Ford has a way to go, but my next truck will likely by a 1/2 ton diesel.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Well, Banks says the motor has a 600HP potential after they get through with it.  Banks 3.0 VM motori up close. Pretty cool stuff. ![[Linked Image]](http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/38408077+h499/1208dp_01%2bvm_motori_banks_630t_diesel_v6_engine%2bcomplete_engine.jpg)
Last edited by TC1; 02/15/13.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,001
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,001 |
As I said, horsepower is a fictitious number derived at one specific rpm, and is only a measurement on the ABILITY TO DO WORK. In the real world, only torque matters.
Comparing a 3.0 litre diesel to a 360 cube v-8 gas engine is apples to oranges.
At what rpm does your hemi make its 360hp?
What is its torque output at 240hp, and at what rpm?
This is high school stuff- Simple Engines and physics 101.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
As I said, horsepower is a fictitious number derived at one specific rpm, and is only a measurement on the ABILITY TO DO WORK. In the real world, only torque matters.
Exactly,HP is the ability to do work. The more HP an engine (any engine) has the faster it can do that work. These two engines have similar torque,one has way more HP. You're kidding yourself if you think this diesel has any chance of keeping up with a Hemi towing similar loads.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts. No, towing there's no comparison. The hemi torque curve is completely different nowhere near as good towing. And hemi's aren't real fast anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104 |
Ford says that they will offer a 3.2 liter diesel in the F-150 in 2014. (Couldn't retrieve the link from Car and Driver--must have to be a subscriber.)
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts. With the durability of newer gas engines, and the government screwing with diesels (plus the added fuel cost and expense to work on), I really don't see the point in buying a diesel unless you are almost strictly towing. If that's the case, buy a 3/4 or 1 ton.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317 |
For the most part, I agree (buy a 3/4 or 1 ton if you are buying it for a tow rig). However, if you have a decent transmission behind it, I think the little diesel would be a good thing in a half-ton. If you drive in town a lot your mileage gains won't be much. But on the highway, I'd expect to see some pretty impressive numbers. That sounds like a motor that is pretty well matched to a half-ton truck. 420lb-ft will tow anything I'd want to tow with a half ton. At what rpm does your hemi make its 360hp? Somewhere north of 5000, but I don't have an exact number. I have a buddy that has a Hemi ram. He tows an aluminum enclosed trailer with a couple snow machines (pretty light load) about 120 miles one way and back every weekend. He absolutely hates that motor. Sucks fuel in a big way, and gutless with a load behind it. I could see this new diesel working out for folks in that situation. I know which motor I'd rather tow with, and it wouldn't have spark plugs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,215
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,215 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts. Obviously, you've never towed anything with a diesel. The diesel will pull better because it produces its max torque within a usable rpm range. Your hemi has to turn north of 5K RPM to get in that torque range. So much for your mileage. If gas motors were better for towing, they'd put them in semis...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
He tows an aluminum enclosed trailer with a couple snow machines (pretty light load) about 120 miles one way and back every weekend. He absolutely hates that motor. Sucks fuel in a big way, and gutless with a load behind it. I could see this new diesel working out for folks in that situation.
I can see the diesel 1/2 ton being a good solution for folks like that. The thing is, correct gearing and a transmission with the correct shift points (or a manual) would most likely cure a lot of the Hemi's ills there also.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157 |
If this happens, bet diesel prices inch up some more. mtmuley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934 |
Max torque with the Dmax and Allison is 17-1800.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts. Obviously, you've never towed anything with a diesel. Your hemi has to turn north of 5K RPM to get in that torque range. Wrong on both counts. Keep guessing
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4 |
Ford says that they will offer a 3.2 liter diesel in the F-150 in 2014. (Couldn't retrieve the link from Car and Driver--must have to be a subscriber.) oooooohhhh, the chance to buy another Ford Diesel! Am I the only one just a bit more than a little skeptical of Ford and diesels right now?
Sic Semper Tyrannis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718 |
With 1/2 ton V8 gas engine pickups getting around 20 MPG's (HWY) these days. What kind of MPG's would you consider acceptable for this new diesel engine considering diesel is $.60-.70 more a gallon?
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday. The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance. I would too..............but the one I drive at work every day (belongs to the boss) only gets 10mpg. Loads of HP, and enough torque to tow well, but SUCK for fuel economy.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
I'm not saying that a gas engine will always perform with a diesel. I'm saying that between these two engines the Hemi will be the towing performance winner hands down.
And thats only comparing the Jeeps HP/torque numbers listed in the article. The Hemi in the Rams is rated at 390HP and 407lb-ft of torque.
That'll be an even bigger ass kicking for the diesel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478 |
I'm not saying that a gas engine will always perform with a diesel. I'm saying that between these two engines the Hemi will be the towing performance winner hands down.
And thats only comparing the Jeeps HP/torque numbers listed in the article. The Hemi in the Rams is rated at 390HP and 407lb-ft of torque.
That'll be an even bigger ass kicking for the diesel. Probably not. The Hemi will really suck fuel under load, and the diesel, like most electronically managed modern diesels, will be easy to turn up the wick from stock. I bet 350hp and 600+ lb/ft wouldn't be hard to achieve. Put that in your Hemi and smoke it 
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,530 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,530 Likes: 1 |
No dog in the fight here, but if you took a couple grand and sunk it into the Hemi, you'd also see some gains wouldn't you? Not the same, I'm sure, but apples to apples is stock to stock. Or, worked over to worked over.
MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday.
The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance.
Horsepower means nothing but the ability to do work. The only number that matters in towing or actual force to the rear wheels (or all four) is torque, and a gasoline engine will never match a diesel in torque or torque curve at various rpms. The Hemi makes 360HP and 390lb-ft of torque. The 3.0 liter diesel will be 240 and 420. Like I said,the Hemi will smoke this diesel in towing performance. If you think that 30lb-ft of torque advantage of the diesel is enough to overcome the 120HP advatnage the Hemi has you're nuts. Obviously, you've never towed anything with a diesel. Your hemi has to turn north of 5K RPM to get in that torque range. I see it both ways, boys. I have a Hemi. TONS of power. Not good MPG. I also have 2 buddies with Cummins 1 tons. They will tow a huge amount anywhere and seamlessly. They also suck, big time in the MPG dept. to do it. They can tow more, easier than mine........but their fuel costs alot more and they use just as much as a gas rig.
Have Dog
Will Travel
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,215
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,215 |
I'm not saying that a gas engine will always perform with a diesel. I'm saying that between these two engines the Hemi will be the towing performance winner hands down.
And thats only comparing the Jeeps HP/torque numbers listed in the article. The Hemi in the Rams is rated at 390HP and 407lb-ft of torque.
That'll be an even bigger ass kicking for the diesel. Like they say, You can't fix stupid, so I'm not going to bother arguing with you. Have a nice day...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
I have a buddy that has a Hemi ram. He tows an aluminum enclosed trailer with a couple snow machines (pretty light load) about 120 miles one way and back every weekend. He absolutely hates that motor. Sucks fuel in a big way, and gutless with a load behind it. I could see this new diesel working out for folks in that situation.
I know which motor I'd rather tow with, and it wouldn't have spark plugs.
A couple friends HAD 1/2T 4wd hemi Dodge trucks. One guy sold his because it was a terrible gas hog. The other guy sold his 2004 because at 100k miles things were starting to fail. And he always thought the power curve was wrong for a truck. Now.....my 1994 beater 4WD GMC gas truck has 235K miles on a 350 engine.....started as 200hp but it's getting tired and feels like a slow pig to me. So my friend drove that old GMC up a long mountain grade and said it was faster, felt more powerful, than his 100k mile hemi. That surprised me. I don't know how the new hemis are but there've been late model hemi rams on Pass Time. The owners thought they really had something.....but those things were slow.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
I had a 2003 Chevy that had 245000 on it when I got rid of it and bought the Ram.
This Ram smokes my old PU for power. It also smokes the 97 GMC Suburban I still have.
107000 on it.
The Ram is getting 16 empty right now and has 5000 on it. 6 speed auto in it.
The Chevy got 17 empty.
The Sub is 17 also.
We will see if the Ram can treat me as well in the low maintenance department after a couple hundred thousand.
Have Dog
Will Travel
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
I had a 2003 Chevy that had 245000 on it when I got rid of it and bought the Ram.
This Ram smokes my old PU for power. It also smokes the 97 GMC Suburban I still have.
107000 on it.
So big deal. That new Ram would be a complete t#rd if it couldn't smoke either of those vehicles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
Have I hit a nerve of some kind?
Facts are facts.
It would out pull them both, if they were all new today.....
Have a great evening, Ackman.
Have Dog
Will Travel
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519 |
I can't believe there's a "brain" on here that thinks at an equal 400lb torque output level a motor running 4500-5000rpm will equal a motor producing the same at 2-400rpm!  I'm not a big diesel lover, they're stinky, the trucks they put them in ride like tanks & the fuel is expensive where as the newer gas 1/2tons ride beautiful & produce amazing power & enough torque to do most jobs & get good gas mileage. Sure a dedicated heavy tow rig should be diesel, but repair costs are terrible, & I see them more & more on newer Cummins diesels, I've seen them require a new head, fuel pump problems & the latest was a water pump at almost $500 + labour, fortunately slipped in just under the warranty cut-of! & that's not counting front end running gear troubles inherent in 3/4tons. A 1/2ton diesel with a turbo 4 cylinder might be a real nice option for someone needing moderate towing/pleasure vehicle mix....IF they can upgrade the reliability issues the newer diesels seem to be having..... All IMHO of course 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
I get as much as 24 mpg out of a Ford f350 with a 7.3 now with a few mods. A 1/2 ton needs to get over 30 mpg to be able to compete. Car manufacturers can't really mess with the EPA and it has been one of the obstacles to building more diesels in the US. The technology is beginning to flourish and even winning in racing circles like the 24 hours of LeMans.
I expect great things from diesels in the future and will never be without one. Tuners can be used to overcome the factory settings required to pass the smog regs. You didn't hear that from me.
Last edited by ppine; 02/17/13.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,387
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,387 |
Tuners can be used to overcome the factory settings required to pass the smog regs. You didn't hear that from me. EPA is already all over that, just read an article of how they fined Edge $500k for their DPF delete tunes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,045
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,045 |
Tuners can be used to overcome the factory settings required to pass the smog regs. You didn't hear that from me. EPA is already all over that, just read an article of how they fined Edge $500k for their DPF delete tunes. Not to mention the fact that the manufacturer will void your warranty for installing a tuner, etc.
The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.
FJB Let's Go Brandon
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
I get as much as 24 mpg out of a Ford f350 with a 7.3 now with a few mods. A 1/2 ton needs to get over 30 mpg to be able to compete. Car manufacturers can't really mess with the EPA and it has been one of the obstacles to building more diesels in the US. The technology is beginning to flourish and even winning in racing circles like the 24 hours of LeMans.
. Uh, I think you got your numbers backward. $10000 more for the motor and 1 ton. .60 more per gallon for fuel. The smoker needs to get ALOT better mileage to catch up. They both work.
Have Dog
Will Travel
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478 |
No dog in the fight here, but if you took a couple grand and sunk it into the Hemi, you'd also see some gains wouldn't you? Not the same, I'm sure, but apples to apples is stock to stock. Or, worked over to worked over. Much more bang for the buck with diesel in terms of the ease of achieving real power gains for comparatively low dollars. Simple programming can produce very big gains in hp and torque. On the earlier 5.9 CR engines (2003-2005) about $800.00 would get you a 150hp and over 450 lb/ft bump with a TST Powermax tuner. No $800.00 mod to a Hemi could come close.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
Have I hit a nerve of some kind?
That's what you'd want.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
Much more bang for the buck with diesel in terms of the ease of achieving real power gains for comparatively low dollars. Simple programming can produce very big gains in hp and torque. On the earlier 5.9 CR engines (2003-2005) about $800.00 would get you a 150hp and over 450 lb/ft bump with a TST Powermax tuner. No $800.00 mod to a Hemi could come close.
Very true. Torque is what pulls and there's no way a gas truck will ever get anywhere near the torque of a diesel. And it's easy getting more out of them, no need to even pull the heads. Build a gas engine to equal tuner diesel hp is a complete teardown and it'll still have half the torque, a lousy power curve, and mileage will be crap. And much less fun to drive. There's just no comparison.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
Just to throw in my two cents: My last truck was a 99 half - ton Chevy with the 5.3 gas V8. I never hauled or towed more than about 4K lbs. I noticed fuel economy drop significantly with a load however, and power did as well. My best fuel economy with this truck was around 17 MPG. The worst was towing a Saturn car on a car trailer. (8 MPG.)
On the other hand, my current truck is an 02 Chevy 2500 HD with the 6.6 liter Duramax diesel and Allison tranny. The truck alone weighs around 7500 lbs. The absolute lowest fuel economy I have ever seen was 14.8 MPG, dragging a boat and trailer combo around 10K lbs. through mountains. The highest - 22.1 MPG.
Obviously diesel produces more power, more efficiently than gas. As someone else mentioned - if gas engines were more efficient, every Peterbilt and Kenworth in America would run on gas.
Diesel has it's place - towing, hauling and POWER.
So does gas - cheap transportation, which is why my daily driver is an 99 Cavalier.
Last edited by AlaskanMatt; 02/18/13.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
Have I hit a nerve of some kind?
That's what you'd want. Need some gina lotion? Jeff-O can help.
Have Dog
Will Travel
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,513
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,513 |
I'd like a current-style 4dr Tacoma 4x4 with a stout 4cyl TD and 6spd auto please. Light-colored rubber floors and faux-leather interior would be great. I'll take one in white or tan. +100
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,528
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,528 |
Mossy,
Have you ever looked at a Dyno sheet? If so you notice that HP are made at high RPM ranges. Ranges that are well past highway cruising speeds. While TQ numbers are highest at lower RPMs, in ranges where actual cruising speeds occur.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 906
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 906 |
Back in 95, I had a 92 model K1500 with the 5.7. Some of my buddies and I went to NM elk hunting with all our camping gear and 4 quads. I pulled the quads on a 16' trailer, one of my buddies pulled the trailer with the camping gear. We figured about equal loads. He was driving a 95 Dodge with the 5.9 cummins. I had 215 HP and about 250 torque. He was rated a 160 hp and 400 torque. Bottom line is, he could run off and leave me and got twice the mileage I got on that trip. Torque at a low rpm is what matters. I now have a DMAX.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,455
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,455 |
The Ford 3.2 ltr diesel will first appear in a van. I wonder where they will go after that. There was a rumor about 2002 that Ford was going to bring out a small diesel for the 150 and it didn't happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I want to see a Toyota Tacoma diesel.. Hopefully this will push Toyota in that direction. They already have a emissions compliant diesel ready to go.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
I could really go for a diesel Tacoma. Perfect for putting around the hills, and pulling a boat on the highway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. That was probably in countries with lower emmision standards?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I would have expected much better and once the EPA got done with them I would expect even less. I just don't think the small truck diesel thing would work for me. Once you get into a 3/4 ton and up it all sorta makes better sense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg. As mentioned earlier, on a trip to Scotland, and while laden full of kit, my friends Hi Lux returned 36mpg, but thats imperial gallons so you figure would be about right for you guys..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg. As mentioned earlier, on a trip to Scotland, and while laden full of kit, my friends Hi Lux returned 36mpg, but thats imperial gallons so you figure would be about right for you guys.. 30mpg (US)? Interesting... What were the driving conditions? Highway? Speeds? Thanks, David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg. As mentioned earlier, on a trip to Scotland, and while laden full of kit, my friends Hi Lux returned 36mpg, but thats imperial gallons so you figure would be about right for you guys.. 30mpg (US)? Interesting... What were the driving conditions? Highway? Speeds? Thanks, David Those figures were mostly highways on the trip up/down and we used the cruise control to keep it at 65mph for the most part.. I would say all the common current generation diesel pick-ups or SUV's available in the UK offer in excess of 30mpg (imperial) with many offering in the high 30's or even mid 40 mpg for SUV's.. Most come with diesel engines in the 2L to 3L size range and I would say would be similar to your compact or midsize vehicles..We don't really get the equivalent of your 5L and 6L full size picks-ups..Vehicles of that size tend to be in the light commercial market...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745 |
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday. The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance. [/quote] Me too. I'll take the Ford 5.0l V-8 over both of em. The cost of the new diesel is not going to make the move worth while. Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore.
Camp is where you make it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion......
Now with even more aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... I'll second that. I paid less than $16K for my 2500HD. I'll bet it's engine and tranny will out - last any new gas model too. I plan to keep my truck for at least another 200-300K miles, and I have no doubt it will last that long. Even factoring in occasional repairs, my truck will cost FAR less than any new full - size gas truck, and it will tow a lot more weight to boot.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Isn't the Hilux a little smaller than the Tacoma?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Isn't the Hilux a little smaller than the Tacoma? The guy I was taking about who owns the Hi Lux upgraded from an older model and the new one is noticeably bigger.., Given that and from what I have read, I don't think there is that much difference these days..Certainly the current Hi Lux is one of the bigger pick-ups on our market..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
Ford says that they will offer a 3.2 liter diesel in the F-150 in 2014. (Couldn't retrieve the link from Car and Driver--must have to be a subscriber.) oooooohhhh, the chance to buy another Ford Diesel! Am I the only one just a bit more than a little skeptical of Ford and diesels right now? Not just "no", but "hell no".
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Its the same size as the 95 Chevy S-10 I had, so I would say its small. Last week I got 15mpg on a strictly hwy driving trip with the cruise st at 70mph. Of course this was with Milwaukee, WI blended fuel.
Last edited by BWalker; 02/19/13.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
OK, thanks for the correction.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Isn't the Hilux a little smaller than the Tacoma? They are about the same size, the HI lux might actually weigh more because it has a beefier frame and running gear.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Its the same size as the 95 Chevy S-10 I had, so I would say its small. Last week I got 15mpg on a strictly hwy driving trip with the cruise st at 70mph. Of course this was with Milwaukee, WI blended fuel. Geez that sucks! My '12DCSB 4x4 gets more like 18-19 cruising at 72ish... Something doesn't sound right to me... David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,204
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,204 |
Ford says that they will offer a 3.2 liter diesel in the F-150 in 2014. (Couldn't retrieve the link from Car and Driver--must have to be a subscriber.) oooooohhhh, the chance to buy another Ford Diesel! Am I the only one just a bit more than a little skeptical of Ford and diesels right now? Not just "no", but "hell no". Double hell no.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Its the same size as the 95 Chevy S-10 I had, so I would say its small. Last week I got 15mpg on a strictly hwy driving trip with the cruise st at 70mph. Of course this was with Milwaukee, WI blended fuel. Geez that sucks! My '12DCSB 4x4 gets more like 18-19 cruising at 72ish... Something doesn't sound right to me... David You guys have ethanol blended fuel and RFG down there?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,867 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... I'll second that. I paid less than $16K for my 2500HD. I'll bet it's engine and tranny will out - last any new gas model too. I plan to keep my truck for at least another 200-300K miles, and I have no doubt it will last that long. Even factoring in occasional repairs, my truck will cost FAR less than any new full - size gas truck, and it will tow a lot more weight to boot. every one I know including myself keeps there vehicle until there is nothing left worth salvaging, my last truck had 300+, I traded it when I couldn't a line it anymore and the doors wouldn't close (bent frame) my dad currently has a 93 GMC with 250k, my uncle is about to roll 300K on 94 Chevy, I've got a buddy with a 5.9 Cummings that last I knew was over 400k and several other friends with Cummings that have 250+
�The constitution of the United States asserts that all power is inherent in the people, that they may exercise it by themselves, that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed!� � Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,926 |
You guys have ethanol blended fuel and RFG down there?
Forgot about the blended fuels - that really blows, sorry... Worst we have to deal with is 10%. David
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... I'll second that. I paid less than $16K for my 2500HD. I'll bet it's engine and tranny will out - last any new gas model too. I plan to keep my truck for at least another 200-300K miles, and I have no doubt it will last that long. Even factoring in occasional repairs, my truck will cost FAR less than any new full - size gas truck, and it will tow a lot more weight to boot. every one I know including myself keeps there vehicle until there is nothing left worth salvaging, my last truck had 300+, I traded it when I couldn't a line it anymore and the doors wouldn't close (bent frame) my dad currently has a 93 GMC with 250k, my uncle is about to roll 300K on 94 Chevy, I've got a buddy with a 5.9 Cummings that last I knew was over 400k and several other friends with Cummings that have 250+ 274k on my '03 Cummins so far and no plans to get rid of it. I would say the extra initial cost for the diesel has more than paid for itself. Not to mention the ease of towing and the lack of engine repairs.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,572
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,572 |
I would love to have a Chevy Tahoe or TOY 4 Runner with a v6 diesel.
If you really like something,you better buy two!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,294
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,294 |
I'd like a current-style 4dr Tacoma 4x4 with a stout 4cyl TD and 6spd auto please. Light-colored rubber floors and faux-leather interior would be great. I'll take one in white or tan. +1, with manual transfer case and windows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,294
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,294 |
One would think they'd tune it differently for the Ram than for the Grand Cherokee. But they start messin' with 275-300hp and 500-550 ft/lbs (which is more than a stock 7.3) and they'll start cuttin' into their 3/4 and 1 ton market. So it'll probably stay around 240/420.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
274k on my '03 Cummins so far and no plans to get rid of it. I would say the extra initial cost for the diesel has more than paid for itself. Not to mention the ease of towing and the lack of engine repairs.
I've only got 136K on my Duramax so far. Just getting broke in.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... I'll second that. I paid less than $16K for my 2500HD. I'll bet it's engine and tranny will out - last any new gas model too. I plan to keep my truck for at least another 200-300K miles, and I have no doubt it will last that long. Even factoring in occasional repairs, my truck will cost FAR less than any new full - size gas truck, and it will tow a lot more weight to boot. every one I know including myself keeps there vehicle until there is nothing left worth salvaging, my last truck had 300+, I traded it when I couldn't a line it anymore and the doors wouldn't close (bent frame) my dad currently has a 93 GMC with 250k, my uncle is about to roll 300K on 94 Chevy, I've got a buddy with a 5.9 Cummings that last I knew was over 400k and several other friends with Cummings that have 250+ Id love to keep a rig that long, but IME after 150K the reliability gets pretty spotty with GM and Dodge rigs. I dont need a rodeo with a broken down rig halfway into my annual MT trip. PLus the the 01 dodge diesel I had ate multiple injection pumps, a tranny, a transfer case, several complete front ends in under 175k. Add up those bills and I would have been better off spinning it at a 100k.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
Sounds like you got a lemon. Most of those rigs run without major problems for hundreds of thousands of miles. The Fords and Dodges eat trannies, but other than that.....
I know a few guys who run hotshot businesses with Duramax Chevys and have gone a million+ miles on the original engines AND trannies with no major repairs.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
The 06 Duramax I had was better than the dodge, but the injectors where going, and I replaced the front end, all four abs wheel sensors, the steering box was leaking oil, and the steering shaft from the wheel to the box was shot. I spun it way before 100k.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... WOW baby, you guys are paying to much for your trucks down there!! I thought they were cheaper in the US?? I paid approx $30 for my new 2012 F-150, crew cab XLT with tow/package. With 360hp & 380fp torque, that little 302 has more than enough power & pulls 26-28mpg(cdn gals) @ 60mph. As I said unless your into hard core pulling I see absolutely no reason for a diesel. You sure ain't ever gonna get the initial extra cost back on fuel savings.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
I have heard that the HI-Lux with the Toyotas D4D diesel engine get around 30mpg.
The only thing I dislike about my 13 Tacoma is the mileage sucks for a small truck. I don't think of the Taco as a small truck anymore. Its the same size as the 95 Chevy S-10 I had, so I would say its small. Last week I got 15mpg on a strictly hwy driving trip with the cruise st at 70mph. Of course this was with Milwaukee, WI blended fuel. I was thinking of how much the Taco has changed. When I pull my '95 Taco next to a current one - Wow. It's like my truck on steroids! The '95 being the first year they came out, they are very much like the Hilux before them.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
Article I saw was saying 30 mpg highway for the 2wd and 28 highway for the 4wd with the diesel in the Grand Cherokee. I have to wonder if a 4wd 1/2 ton truck will get those numbers? Maybe mid 20s?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
A lot depends on driving habits.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
A lot depends on driving habits. Absolutely. I would deduct at least 10% from those numbers to get a real world idea of what to expect. Seems like I never get close to EPA estimates, or what "the internet experts" claim for mileage. Of course, being honest helps
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424 |
It depends on whether you take your normal or your best mileage. I make a round trip from Gillette to Casper and back on a quarter tank once because the roads were icy and I was going about 45mph. It normally takes a half tank.
If you love someone set them free
If they come back no one else liked them
Set them free again
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
I think most people fool themselves by always quoting their highway fuel economy. The vast majority don't drive ONLY on the highway, so the HWY number doesn't reflect what they actually pay at the pump. Example: My truck can get 25+ MPG on the highway, but I always wind up driving some city miles too, which brings my overall average in summer to 19.6 MPG. (calculated over about 7K miles) With the winter fuel blend, and extra idle time in the winter my overall average has dropped to 16.8 MPG. The combined fuel economy number is a more realistic representation of what you're actually going to be paying for.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
Spooling up the turbo is a lot of fun and making 9000 lbs of pickup jump. It's not good for mpg though.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,543
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,543 |
Ford says that they will offer a 3.2 liter diesel in the F-150 in 2014. (Couldn't retrieve the link from Car and Driver--must have to be a subscriber.) oooooohhhh, the chance to buy another Ford Diesel! Am I the only one just a bit more than a little skeptical of Ford and diesels right now? Not just "no", but "hell no". I've been running my '11 6.7L for 11Mo, 24K mi, and no troubles, as there shouldn't be. I'd love to run it to 250K+, I guess we'll see how things shake out.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,086
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,086 |
As I said, horsepower is a fictitious number derived at one specific rpm, and is only a measurement on the ABILITY TO DO WORK. In the real world, only torque matters.
Exactly,HP is the ability to do work. The more HP an engine (any engine) has the faster it can do that work. These two engines have similar torque,one has way more HP. You're kidding yourself if you think this diesel has any chance of keeping up with a Hemi towing similar loads. Have you ever owned or towed with a diesel truck?Just curious?My 2004 dodge cummins 5.9 diesel with about 300 HP.would out pull any hemi 360 hp.engine.Its all about Torque.coobie
Last edited by coobie; 02/23/13.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
A few early reviews out are quite glowing regarding the 3.0 liter diesel in the Grand Cherokee. Anxious to see if it will really deliver 28 mpg on the highway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,394 |
A few early reviews out are quite glowing regarding the 3.0 liter diesel in the Grand Cherokee. Anxious to see if it will really deliver 28 mpg on the highway. That Italian engine looks like a real good one. Diesel Power Magazine is now saying that GM and Ford won't be selling 1/2T diesel trucks this year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Article I saw was saying 30 mpg highway for the 2wd and 28 highway for the 4wd with the diesel in the Grand Cherokee. I have to wonder if a 4wd 1/2 ton truck will get those numbers? Maybe mid 20s? Maybe. The older technology Toytota Hi-luxes get mid to high 20's in 4WD I was told by South Africans I used to work with. The Grand might be a tad lighter vehicle.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478 |
Article I saw was saying 30 mpg highway for the 2wd and 28 highway for the 4wd with the diesel in the Grand Cherokee. I have to wonder if a 4wd 1/2 ton truck will get those numbers? Maybe mid 20s? Maybe. The older technology Toytota Hi-luxes get mid to high 20's in 4WD I was told by South Africans I used to work with. The Grand might be a tad lighter vehicle. Keep in mind South Africa used Imperial gallons before they went metric.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Article I saw was saying 30 mpg highway for the 2wd and 28 highway for the 4wd with the diesel in the Grand Cherokee. I have to wonder if a 4wd 1/2 ton truck will get those numbers? Maybe mid 20s? Maybe. The older technology Toytota Hi-luxes get mid to high 20's in 4WD I was told by South Africans I used to work with. The Grand might be a tad lighter vehicle. Keep in mind South Africa used Imperial gallons before they went metric. What's the diff? The SA guy I worked with was/is one of the smartest dudes I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. I'm pretty sure he knew how to do the math if it was crazy different than US gal and he'd been to the US and Europe a bunch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
Imperial gallons are about 5 US quarts. (25% 'bigger' gallons) Canada used the same measure prior to going metric.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,736
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,736 |
I've got a '73 F-100 that would be a damned good candidate for a 5.9 two valve motor. It's on its 3rd owner and 3rd 302. Miles? Speedo hasn't worked for ten years! Just waiting to find the right wrecked truck, and if it could coincide with tax return season, that would be great! Even a turbo'd 7.3 with mechanical injection would be good.
Wait and see game right now.
Sean
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,528
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,528 |
With 1/2 ton V8 gas engine pickups getting around 20 MPG's (HWY) these days. What kind of MPG's would you consider acceptable for this new diesel engine considering diesel is $.60-.70 more a gallon?
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday. The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance. I'm betting your flat wrong. HP doesnt mean chit really, where towing is concerned. Torque, torque, torque. And the diesel has the hemi beat on that, not too mention reaching its torque curve at much lower rpms, which helps a great deal when pulling a load.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
With 1/2 ton V8 gas engine pickups getting around 20 MPG's (HWY) these days. What kind of MPG's would you consider acceptable for this new diesel engine considering diesel is $.60-.70 more a gallon?
I'll take the 360HP Hemi at 20mpg over a 240HP diesel at 25mpg anyday. The Hemi is gonna smoke this diesel in towing performance. I'm betting your flat wrong. HP doesnt mean chit really, where towing is concerned. Torque, torque, torque. And the diesel has the hemi beat on that, not too mention reaching its torque curve at much lower rpms, which helps a great deal when pulling a load. Exactly right. Low RPM torque beats high RPM horsepower for towing every time.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,572
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,572 |
High RPM=High HP = low MPG
If you really like something,you better buy two!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4 |
Funny boys with their toys. Your hemi makes more HP than my Semi tractor with a 12 L Detroit diesel in it...... Want to see which truck pulls a trailer better? I'll pull 60,000 lbs up a 5% grade at 58 MPH. All day long......
Who wants to hold the bets? I'll give odds....
Sic Semper Tyrannis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1 |
I just got a 1/2 and 1/2 ton truck with a real diesel engine. 2012, the last year you can get a diesel without having to add Urea... ![[Linked Image]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/124_3949_zps2830e267.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
I just got a 1/2 and 1/2 ton truck with a real diesel engine. 2012, the last year you can get a diesel without having to add Urea...
Just wondering why you have to add Urea??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Urea is a much better solution than injecting extra fuel to regen the catalyst, which is what Dodge uses.
Nice rig, btw Shrap.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1 |
Urea is a much better solution than injecting extra fuel to regen the catalyst, which is what Dodge uses.
Nice rig, btw Shrap. Actually, all manufacturers are required to add Urea to supposedly cut down on emissions, Dodge was the last to switch to the new fuel requirements, Ford and GM have already gone. Caterpillar has indicated that they will not produce diesel engines for the truck market anymore due to the Urea requirement and produce engines for construction and off-road applications where Urea isn't required...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I just got a 1/2 and 1/2 ton truck with a real diesel engine. 2012, the last year you can get a diesel without having to add Urea... What sort of MPG's are you getting? I hear so many wide spread numbers when it comes to diesel pick ups. BTW, nice looking truck!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
Urea is a much better solution than injecting extra fuel to regen the catalyst, which is what Dodge uses.
Nice rig, btw Shrap. Actually, all manufacturers are required to add Urea to supposedly cut down on emissions, Dodge was the last to switch to the new fuel requirements, Ford and GM have already gone. Caterpillar has indicated that they will not produce diesel engines for the truck market anymore due to the Urea requirement and produce engines for construction and off-road applications where Urea isn't required... From what I understand Dodge's way of getting by without urea for the last few years was by using fuel to regen a nox absorber catalyst. The engines using urea injection use a scr catalyst, which reduces nox more efficiently. With the ability to control nox to lower levels the engines have more leeway in the air fuel ratios they can run which has mileage benefits in addition to not wasting fuel regenerating. The urea sytems are simply better technology.
Last edited by BWalker; 03/02/13.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,934 |
The latest diesels use urea injection (DEF) and DPF which injects extra fuel (ca. 1/2 gal/tank) to clean the DPF approx. every 400 mi (dependant on driving conditions).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 649
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 649 |
A buddy of mine bought a 12 3/4 ton long box for $35k, what a deal. Yours looks good also.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,562 Likes: 1 |
I just got a 1/2 and 1/2 ton truck with a real diesel engine. 2012, the last year you can get a diesel without having to add Urea... What sort of MPG's are you getting? I hear so many wide spread numbers when it comes to diesel pick ups. BTW, nice looking truck! I only have a couple hundred miles on it. I went prairie dog shooting today, over and back, driving dirt roads and fields, netted 14.2 MPG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
A good discussion, but with a lot of rationalizing by people to support what they own. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I am sold on diesels and the economics make more sense when you consider a few facts. Diesel fuel costs about $.35 more here in Nevada but last year it was cheaper than gas for awhile. In the future it is likely to cost less gas with the advent of biodiesel. My 2002 Ford I bought new and has only 126,000 miles on it. It is worth a lot more than a similar gas truck. I can easily keep it another 10 years or more. I will probably trade it eventually for a diesel 1/2 ton.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157 |
Won't most of the drivetrain in these half ton trucks have to be upgraded for a diesel application? Might as well get a 3/4 ton. I guess I don't see the need for a light towing rig with a diesel. I definitely don't see the need for a diesel non towing daily driver. mtmuley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Muley,
Gas 1/2 tons are now rated for something like 10-11,000 pounds. A diesel 1/2 ton should be able to rated for the same amount or more. Many people need a daily driver that gets over 30 mpg, but can still pull on weekends or occasionally during the work week. That is the niche of the 1/2 ton diesel.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
Seems like it would not be for towing as much as for better mileage and the torque would be nice for off road driving as well. If you are seriously towing heavy stuff, I would still go with a 3/4 ton diesel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424 |
Muley,
Gas 1/2 tons are now rated for something like 10-11,000 pounds. A diesel 1/2 ton should be able to rated for the same amount or more. Many people need a daily driver that gets over 30 mpg, but can still pull on weekends or occasionally during the work week. That is the niche of the 1/2 ton diesel. I honestly hope that they do get 30 mpg, but I seriously doubt it. If the EPA were abolished, they might come close.
If you love someone set them free
If they come back no one else liked them
Set them free again
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,083
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,083 |
I see Jeep Grand Cherokee is coming out with a V-6 Diesel this spring also.
Pulling 10K with a 1/2 T pickup is a recipe for disaster.That truck is going go where the trailer wants to go.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,083
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,083 |
Muley,
Gas 1/2 tons are now rated for something like 10-11,000 pounds. A diesel 1/2 ton should be able to rated for the same amount or more. Many people need a daily driver that gets over 30 mpg, but can still pull on weekends or occasionally during the work week. That is the niche of the 1/2 ton diesel. You'll never see that mpg in a full size 1/2 ton truck with today's diesel engines. Expat
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,424 |
Now if dodge had put the 4bt in their 1500's back in the 90's with an NV4500, they may have gotten close with the 2wd's.
If you love someone set them free
If they come back no one else liked them
Set them free again
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
25 mpg would be a nice real world mileage given that the 06 and newer 3/4 ton diesels I have owned got about 15 mpg.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
Muley,
Gas 1/2 tons are now rated for something like 10-11,000 pounds. A diesel 1/2 ton should be able to rated for the same amount or more. Many people need a daily driver that gets over 30 mpg, but can still pull on weekends or occasionally during the work week. That is the niche of the 1/2 ton diesel. I honestly hope that they do get 30 mpg, but I seriously doubt it. If the EPA were abolished, they might come close. Persoanlly, i'd be happy to see it get 20 mpg.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246 |
A half ton 4x4 diesel that averaged a real-world 20-22mpg would be good. A compact 4x4 diesel that hit 26-28mpg average would be equally good.
Now with even more aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
There's mixed city driving mileage, and highway driving. My 3/4 ton diesel will get 21 on the highway, mixed city is 15-17, winter time with long warm ups and 4wd is 13.
I don't see why anyone would want to tow a 10,000lb load with any 1/2 ton truck. Towing is more than getting a load up to speed, you have to stop the load and 1/2t truck breaks are not suitable for such use.
The thing is there are lots of people who occasionally tow 3000-5000 pound loads, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, smaller boats, lighter campers etc,. For those people a 1/2 ton diesel that gets ~28 mpg on the freeway, 20+mpg mixed and 20+mpg towing a lighter load would be superb.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
There's mixed city driving mileage, and highway driving. My 3/4 ton diesel will get 21 on the highway, mixed city is 15-17, winter time with long warm ups and 4wd is 13.
I don't see why anyone would want to tow a 10,000lb load with any 1/2 ton truck. Towing is more than getting a load up to speed, you have to stop the load and 1/2t truck breaks are not suitable for such use.
The thing is there are lots of people who occasionally tow 3000-5000 pound loads, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, smaller boats, lighter campers etc,. For those people a 1/2 ton diesel that gets ~28 mpg on the freeway, 20+mpg mixed and 20+mpg towing a lighter load would be superb. I agree - for lighter loads, a half ton will get the job done just fine. Buy a 3/4 ton or 1 ton for the bigger stuff. By the way, just curious what you're driving. I get about the same mileage as you in the warmer months (overall average is just under 20 MPG for city/hwy combined) but I don't drop quite as far in the winter. My truck is getting about 16 - 17 MPG in the winter. It's an 02 Chevy 2500 HD with the 6.6 L. Duramax.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,083
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,083 |
There's mixed city driving mileage, and highway driving. My 3/4 ton diesel will get 21 on the highway, mixed city is 15-17, winter time with long warm ups and 4wd is 13.
I don't see why anyone would want to tow a 10,000lb load with any 1/2 ton truck. Towing is more than getting a load up to speed, you have to stop the load and 1/2t truck breaks are not suitable for such use.
The thing is there are lots of people who occasionally tow 3000-5000 pound loads, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, smaller boats, lighter campers etc,. For those people a 1/2 ton diesel that gets ~28 mpg on the freeway, 20+mpg mixed and 20+mpg towing a lighter load would be superb. I agree - for lighter loads, a half ton will get the job done just fine. Buy a 3/4 ton or 1 ton for the bigger stuff. By the way, just curious what you're driving. I get about the same mileage as you in the warmer months (overall average is just under 20 MPG for city/hwy combined) but I don't drop quite as far in the winter. My truck is getting about 16 - 17 MPG in the winter. It's an 02 Chevy 2500 HD with the 6.6 L. Duramax. My 98 Cummins does not drop that much in the winter either.21 or so summer 18-19 winter, 14 pulling a loaded 20 ft gooseneck
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
It's the city driving and short trips that kills my mileage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
There's mixed city driving mileage, and highway driving. My 3/4 ton diesel will get 21 on the highway, mixed city is 15-17, winter time with long warm ups and 4wd is 13.
I don't see why anyone would want to tow a 10,000lb load with any 1/2 ton truck. Towing is more than getting a load up to speed, you have to stop the load and 1/2t truck breaks are not suitable for such use.
The thing is there are lots of people who occasionally tow 3000-5000 pound loads, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, smaller boats, lighter campers etc,. For those people a 1/2 ton diesel that gets ~28 mpg on the freeway, 20+mpg mixed and 20+mpg towing a lighter load would be superb. And that's the category that I fall into, most weight I would tow would be no more than 6k.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 860
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 860 |
I think that Chrysler missed the boat a little on this. Had they got into the 1/2 ton diesel market prior to the strict emissions requirements a 1/2 ton diesel would've made more sense. With the current emissions I just don't see any new diesel getting mid to high 20's mileage. With the current cost of diesel, it would have to be getting 27-28mpg to have the equivalent fuel cost of an ecoboost.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
We have had a number of GM 1/2 ton 4wd crew cabs over the last 15 years. All of them would do 18-19 easy and many trips were over 20 mpg with the right speed/wind situation. That was with the 5.3 gas.
So, now with Ram advertising 25 mpg with the 1/2 ton V-6 (2wd) and the new 8 sp tranny, I would think (hope) that a small diesel could do at least 25 mpg on the highway with 4wd?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,157 |
So, the 1/2 ton diesel will theoretically only be an advantage over the gasser in mpg, and quite possibly not by much. A gas rig will tow the light loads like snowmobiles, 4-wheelers campers etc. I'm sure a ton of them will sell at first because they are "the thing". mtmuley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,776
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,776 |
I would be interested in a 1/2 ton diesel that got somewhere around 22 to 25 mpg on the highway. We rarely tow more than 7500 lbs.
My 03 GMC extended cab, 5.3 V8 with auto trans and 4:10 gears gets 17 on the highway and 12 towing and working around the farm. Average fuel mileage for most tanks is right around 14.5 mpg.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
I rarely tow over 5000lbs, but would be more interested in diesel if it was a mileage deal. A consistent 25 mpg in a 4wd, crew cab pickup might make me change my commuter vehicle back from a car to a pickup.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246 |
+1.
I don't tow big loads, mostly ATV's, utility trailers, small boats, small tractors, etc. I'd like to see a large-ish compact truck with 4 doors and 4 wheel drive that I could average 25mpg unloaded, when mixing in a moderate amount of city driving. That's what I'm driving 90% of the time. You could average 19-21mpg under the same circumstances with some of Toyota's mid-size options in years past and they were V6 gas-burners with 4spd autos. Why wouldn't a 10yr newer version of a similar size vehicle with a good 2.5L 4cyl turbo diesel and a appropriate 6-7spd auto be capable of knocking out another 4-5mpg?
Now with even more aplomb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Realize that in many parts of the world, even one ton trucks have 4 cylinder diesels with a manual 6 speed trans and sometimes a split rear axle. More gears and less power.
I have gotten as high as 24 mpg from my 7.3 liter Ford one ton with an auto trans. Thirty is totally doable in a 1/2 ton. Diesel technology has a long way to go to fully exploit its capabilities.
The old Willys Jeeps had little straight 6s in them, but 4.88 rear gears and tight ratio gear boxes.
We have been spoiled by cheap fuel in this country for so long that we are slow to respond to changes in the World Market and increasing prices.
Last edited by ppine; 03/07/13.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 851
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 851 |
The old Willys Jeeps had little straight 6s in them, but 4.88 rear gears and tight ratio gear boxes.
All of the Jeeps we had in service were 4 cyl. I never saw a 6 cyl one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Hound,
I am thinking of the Hurricane 6. Was that after Willy's was out of the picture? Maybe the old Jeeps had the 6.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,458 |
I read a article where the Audi Q7 diesel averaged about 28 mpg on a extended road trip. That is a heavy vehicle. Have to believe that a mid size or even full size truck could do as well.
Last edited by duckster; 03/11/13. Reason: spelling
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722 |
Nobody keeps trucks that long anymore. In my opinion, people seem to be keeping their trucks longer and longer these days. Few folks want to pony up for a new $45k truck and drive it for 2-3 years. The average truck lasts a lot longer these days than it did back in the 80's or even the early 90's. Like I said, just my opinion...... WOW baby, you guys are paying to much for your trucks down there!! I thought they were cheaper in the US?? I paid approx $30 for my new 2012 F-150, crew cab XLT with tow/package. With 360hp & 380fp torque, that little 302 has more than enough power & pulls 26-28mpg(cdn gals) @ 60mph. As I said unless your into hard core pulling I see absolutely no reason for a diesel. You sure ain't ever gonna get the initial extra cost back on fuel savings. Y'all's trucks might cost less up there????....but I doubt he was talking about paying 45 for the truck you bought for 30?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I read a article where the Audi Q7 diesel averaged about 28 mpg on a extended road trip. That is a heavy vehicle. Have to believe that a mid size or even full size truck could do as well. The motor they are putting in this new Ram truck is already in the 2014 Grand Cherokee and rated at 21 mpg city and 28 mpg hwy. I don't think it'll hit the same numbers in a full size Ram truck but I could be wrong. I don't think I would be a candidate but really like the idea that it's being offered as an option.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722 |
I won't be a candidate either but it sounds cool. I do know diesels respond well to programmers and can see a "turned up" 1/2 ton being fun.
That said it'll still be a 1/2 ton and I would rather have a 3/4- 1 ton for hauling our horses cattle hay etc....
For a 1/2 ton person that does some towing it sounds good. I too totally agree the diesel will pull/tow much better that a wound up gaser.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,156
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,156 |
I read a article where the Audi Q7 diesel averaged about 28 mpg on a extended road trip. That is a heavy vehicle. Have to believe that a mid size or even full size truck could do as well. The motor they are putting in this new Ram truck is already in the 2014 Grand Cherokee and rated at 21 mpg city and 28 mpg hwy. I don't think it'll hit the same numbers in a full size Ram truck but I could be wrong. I don't think I would be a candidate but really like the idea that it's being offered as an option. I'd guess about 25 mpg highway. If it can get that out of a 4x4 crew cab then it'll be a game changer. Any gas 4x4 crew cab 1/2 ton is going to top out at about 17-18 hwy, despite some of the bogus claims you hear. 25 MPG is about a 25% increase in fuel economy, that's significant. Diesels aren't all about towing, though many in the U.S. seem to think that's all they're good for. I have a 98 dodge 2500 diesel 2wd that'll get about 22 mpg highway. Over it's 375K mile lifespan it's saved me a LOT of money in fuel. It only occasionally got used for towing. I also have a 2006 jeep liberty diesel with the VM motori 2.8L 4 cylinder. On the highway at reasonable speeds it'll get 28 MPG or so. It's small but it's pretty heavy (4200 lbs.), is 4wd, and has the aerodynamics of a brick. If it'll get 28 hwy then I think 25 hwy is reasonable for the dodge truck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
The funny thing is if the diesel 1/2 ton was available when I got my 2500 cummins in '06 I would have gotten it and it would have been a better choice for what I've used my truck for the past 6 1/2 years.
But now I'm considering a bigger boat in the next couple years and hence the 1/2t diesel wouldn't be up to the task.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Diesel fuel today at my local station is .04 cents cheaper than regular gas.
Thirty mpg is totally possible with a 6 cylinder diesel in a 1/2 ton truck.
Last edited by ppine; 03/15/13.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 860
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 860 |
Disel fuel today at my local station is .04 cents cheaper than regular gas.
Thirty mpg is totally possible with a 6 cylinder diesel in a 1/2 ton truck. Geez, around here it's about $0.50 more per gallon!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
Disel fuel today at my local station is .04 cents cheaper than regular gas.
Thirty mpg is totally possible with a 6 cylinder diesel in a 1/2 ton truck. Geez, around here it's about $0.50 more per gallon! It's running about $.40 more per gallon also.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,853 Likes: 4 |
Gas $3.36, Diesel $4.04. almost 20%
Sic Semper Tyrannis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Today diesel is about .12 cents more than gas. It is a moving target and subject to evolving technology.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
458,
Maybe you could consider a smaller boat. The rigs with 3 axles are always for sale because they are a pain in the ass to haul around. A cuddy cabin always sounds good to people but takes up too much room and adds weight.
I have a 19 foot aluminum boat with an outboard that weighs less than 2000 pounds and does everything.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317 |
Um... no offense intended, but a smaller boat?.... that is a terrible idea!
I agree on the triple axle - not interested in owning a triple axle trailer ever again. But a 19 foot boat would seriously cramp the fun...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
A 19 footer could be tossed in the bed of the truck.
almost.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
458,
Maybe you could consider a smaller boat. The rigs with 3 axles are always for sale because they are a pain in the ass to haul around. A cuddy cabin always sounds good to people but takes up too much room and adds weight.
I have a 19 foot aluminum boat with an outboard that weighs less than 2000 pounds and does everything. Do you think a 19' boat would be a good boat for a family of 5 on a week long trip running 200 nm and carrying two 160qt coolers and 100# of ice for fish and shrimp, not to mention carrying an inflatable for getting to shore and shrimp pots/pullers? I would never own a saltwater fishing boat for Alaska that didn't have a cuddy cabin and pilot house. The value of being about to get out of the weather is priceless.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
458,
Maybe you could consider a smaller boat. The rigs with 3 axles are always for sale because they are a pain in the ass to haul around. A cuddy cabin always sounds good to people but takes up too much room and adds weight.
I have a 19 foot aluminum boat with an outboard that weighs less than 2000 pounds and does everything. Do you think a 19' boat would be a good boat for a family of 5 on a week long trip running 200 nm and carrying two 160qt coolers and 100# of ice for fish and shrimp, not to mention carrying an inflatable for getting to shore and shrimp pots/pullers? I would never own a saltwater fishing boat for Alaska that didn't have a cuddy cabin and pilot house. The value of being about to get out of the weather is priceless. Not to mention needing the bigger boat for the typically rough waters up here. I went on a hunting trip in PWS in a 23' boat, and we got stuck in a bay at Naked Island for a couple of days because of 6' seas.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,225 Likes: 23 |
... we got stuck in a bay at Naked Island for a couple of days because of 6' seas. Puss!
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
LOL, it wasn't my boat, and I'm no seaman. I just pulled the boat to the harbor with my truck. The owner of the boat took over from there.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,317 |
... we got stuck in a bay at Naked Island for a couple of days because of 6' seas. Puss! Laffin!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 337 |
Hey, it was a good excuse to explore the island some more. Tell me you wouldn't have done the same!
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,187 |
Not for a family in Alaska.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I was rolling trough St. Louis MO last night and diesel was $0.10 a gallon cheaper than regular grade gasoline!
There maybe a future for this pickup.
|
|
|
|
|
685 members (160user, 10gaugemag, 1beaver_shooter, 10Glocks, 12344mag, 66 invisible),
3,188
guests, and
1,375
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,104
Posts18,483,222
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr288/Bwnci/welsh-flag-large-anim.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/G9RDVKXr/DSCN4329.jpg)
