Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Free range buff in MT?

Wow, lots to work with there but will address just a couple:

1. One of the best kept secrets is Pittman-Robertson, so we agree on paying for wildlife (at least to some degree).

2. However, it would seem your statement about looking out for #1 is exactly what you claim MOGA, the Republican legislators and private landowners are doing. Have you reached out to any of the above?

I might suggest you attend the FWP Senate/House committee hearings and you may get a different perspective on how this all gets done. There are no easy answers but continually blaming the stockgrowers, MOGA and the Republicans will not solve anything (especially when the majority is held by the Republicans) - this was proved with the passing of I-161. The last time these groups sat across the table was during the Racicot administration. We have much more in common than this thread would indicate.

The only people I know with as much time off as gov employee's are.........retired?

I should go to work for the guv!

I tease my buddy all the time about it. He has worked for the county forever and gets all kinds of time off. I think he told me has 150-200 hours of PTO built up? Of course they also get every holiday known to man off as well.

I just wish my old man paid me over-time......grin


My wife is private sector, just asked her and she has 44 days built up! Wonder why...oh yeah, we never go anywhere...ever....laughing

I know you were joking dude...I've worked for the govt ever since school. The Military, USFWS and the BLM. I enjoy it and think most here would be suprised at how many fed govt workers DESPISE the big bosses in Washington. At least the DOI employees I have worked with do.

The holidays off sure are nice for sure. That's one thing I do NOT miss about farm/ranch life.

toolelk said,

1. One of the best kept secrets is Pittman-Robertson, so we agree on paying for wildlife (at least to some degree).

Best kept secret from whom?

Its no secret that hunters have been paying the vast, vast majority of the freight for all game and non-game wildlife management for the last 100 years or so. PR funds are a portion of that, so are tag fees, licenses, conservation stamps, etc. Might be worth mentioning dingell/Johnson funds as well. Of course, thats not to mention the billions that hunters have voluntarily paid via the RMEF, WSF, NWTF, DU, B&C club, P&Y...literally hundreds of organizations that support wildlife and wildlife management. If anyone thinks there are better wildlife stewards than hunters and fishermen...they have their heads up their own arse.

2. However, it would seem your statement about looking out for #1 is exactly what you claim MOGA, the Republican legislators and private landowners are doing. Have you reached out to any of the above?

I've only started looking out for #1 once wildlife and hunters are pissed on by the above groups. MOGA flat lied about many issues in Montana...including living up to their end of the Outfitter Sponsored licenses. They agreed to providing the number of leased acres to the MTFWP/Hunting public prior to the OSL's in exchange for OSL's and also agreed to never lease more acreage than was enrolled in Block Management. Never happened, until 2-3 years in the OSL program, ensuring that for that time frame the leasing of private lands increased trememdously, as did the number of outfitters.

Recently the MOGA along with the WYOGA trashed the RMEF over the appointment of Randy Newberg to the RMEF board. Seems the MOGA/WYOGA both tried to strong arm the RMEF saying they'd withdraw all support of RMEF if they allowed Randy on their board. Hardly the work of a group that is trying to extend the olive branch to hunters.

Why should I waste my time trying to "reach out" to a group that is simply interested in the self-serving agenda of outfitters, not living up to their agreements, and gerry-madering/strong arming the RMEF? They have no use for DIY, average hunters, and tried to keep an average hunter off the RMEF board. Their intentions and actions toward the average DIY hunters are more than apparent.

I might suggest you attend the FWP Senate/House committee hearings and you may get a different perspective on how this all gets done.

I might suggest to you, that I traveled over 1,600 miles on chitty roads, just last week, on my dime, to attend and be part of the Legislative process in Helena. I also write several dozen emails/letters per year and make dozens of phone calls to MT. I'll also suggest that I testified in no less than 12 senate/house committee hearings in Wyoming this year, traveling to Cheyenne, again, on my dime to testify. I also have written countless letters and made countless phone calls to the Wyoming delegation as well.

I'm also a life member, or member of several sportsmens groups in Montana that I donate my time and money to...HHA, RCFWA, MWF, MSA, to name a few. Same thing in Wyoming where I also have a board appointment to the WGBLC, chair of the WYBHA, etc.

There are no easy answers but continually blaming the stockgrowers, MOGA and the Republicans will not solve anything (especially when the majority is held by the Republicans) - this was proved with the passing of I-161.

Call me old school, but when 100% of the bad, anti-sportsmen/anti-wildlife bills are introduced from the above groups, I place the blame where it belongs. Unless you've been playing rip van winkle the last 2 sessions in Montana...you'd know where these bills (a few hundred) are coming from. You know, great bills like having sportsmen pay for test/slaughter of whats left of the elk in MT, anti-bison bills galore, and a straight party-line vote on the blast motion for 235...to name just a VERY FEW of the chickenchit bills introduced by the R's at the request of the groups you mentioned.

We have much more in common than this thread would indicate.

Not anymore, the gloves are off...and sportsmen will not continue to be thrown under the bus by MOGA/WYOGA, the legislature, or the stockgrowers.

I-161 was just the beginning...count on it.

And who did I-161 benefit?

Who threw the tantrum after it passed?

MOGA...FACT.

Who's still all butt hurt over it?

MOGA...FACT

I don't remember any tantrum but surely do understand some angst when one's livelyhood is challenged. I am quite sure the outfitters would not turn back the clock on I-161. The big losers are the Montana sportsmen and Montana FWP. Severe loss of revenue, relaxed rules and increased leased land. Hard to believe Montana Wildlife Foundation and your gloves off mentality versus private landowners will result in more places to hunt. Then again, MWF was all for the wolves so this bison plan fits in their overall agenda.

Buzz,

Why are they butt hurt? Because DIY guys can get a tag every year now? Pissed no guaranteed tag.

It seems to have worked out for them.

Dink

One Q I do have. I know that Turner has buff on some of his ranches. To date I've not ever heard of any issues with the shaggy beasts taking a jaunt off the D. Has anyone else heard of any issues with it.

As well, seems to me that out by Medora (Teddy Roosevelt Park) that they have buff in it. I've seen them as I buzz by on I94. Have the had issues with them escaping there?

If so, how do they typically handle these challenges?

Thx
Dober

toolelk,

When you choose to wrongly throw one of the oldest hunter advocacy groups under the bus...at least know who you're talking about. I assume you're talking about the Montana Wildlife Federation...

Here is your MWF "pro-wolf" bluff...called and trumped:

http://www.montanawildlife.com/projectsissues/10JWolfHunt.htm

Are you really this unaware of the work the MWF has done? Are you a member of MTSFW, or just really that clueless?

Whats really hard to believe is how lacking you are in knowledge about the state you live in...and the wildlife issues of same.

I also suggest you look over the "severe revenue loss" associated with I-161.

Toolelk,

Heres what the MWF has done to improve landowner/hunter relationships..

http://www.montanawildlife.com/projectsissues/landownersurvey.htm

Care to show me where the stockgrowers/landowners have done something similar with their advocacy groups?

I'll not hold my breath waiting for more of your "proof"...

Stop it with the intelligent questions that do not add to the anti Buff hysteria, just stop it!

Best two posts on the thread right there.

Buzz, you are so much smarter and more connected - bravo! I am just a lowly business owner that hunts on both private and public land. I do spend a fair amount of time trying to grasp issues concerning hunting and protecting the right to hunt but on my nickel.

If you want to dispute that revenues for FWP have decreased since the passing of I-161, its your right but the facts prove otherwise. Again, the outfitters are quite happy with the new regulations - more land is leased and outfitter regulations are less restrictive. I ask you again, who benefited from the passing of I-161?

If you want to dispute that NWF supported the reintroduction of wolves (I don't remember MWF voicing a counter opinion from your parent organization), carry on. Once again, the facts are not on your side.

So MWF sent out some letters and posted the responses. Do you really think this has improved relations with landowners? Keep pushing your "gloves off" agenda and try forcing buffalo on the landowners - superb plan. Can you have it both ways?

Oh, concerning the Bitterroot Elk study - where was MWF on that one? SCI doled out $50K. Money talks....

If you are not paying attention maybe.



Rancho(and others) have already pointed out that Ted feeds his buff... To keep them from wandering....In search of food.


And if you still can't figure out why it's gonna be a problem go back and reread the thread.


Most guys here don't think it's a good idea, however some of them are pissed and want to use the buff as 'payback'.

1st grade biology.

And dinkshooter is a troll.

Sam,

Why are they pissed? I am quite sure I could never payback the landowners that have opened their gates. Seems counterintuitive...

how many cattle graze the CMR wildlife refuge?

Hell if I know Toolelk. I guess they think 'landowners' are busy calling up politicians and trying to get shady chit passed.

I will admit, I don't follow political bullchit much and really dislike almost all politicians.


That is what pisses me off.
A bunch of guys from out of state bitching and howling about ranchers [bleep] hunters here in Montana. Jesus Christ, grown men acting like a bunch of [bleep]' 4 year old kids. You dumbphuckers think the average rancher is busy on the phone pushing this stupid ass corner crossing and similiar bullchit bills? Outfitting? I could give a [bleep] less.

Seriously?

You [bleep] idiots.



I feel better now....laughin'