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When the KUIU gear started getting reviewed and the Attack pants got a lot of love, I took a look. Saw the price tag, and looked away never to look back. Until I started pricing similar style pants (non-cotton, DWR, athletic cut). Here is what I found:

There isn't a whole lot out there that can compete with the Attack in that price range.

I need a 32 waist with at least a 34 inseam. That doesn't come easy. Most of the big technical clothing companies (Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, Arcteryx, Montbell, RAB, Westcomb) offer pants in a 32 inseam. 2 inches too short. Everyone knows how annoying it can be to have pants that don't cover your boots. On top of that - black pants is the norm. Black? For hunting? No thanks.

In addition - all those brands I just mentioned - you have to pay $200 (sometimes $300+) to get a pair of pants like the Attack. The only pants I've found similar are the Marmot Scree. They come in a long inseam. They can be found for $100. They do come in a charcoal grey.

In my opinion - the Attack are a pretty darn good deal for a non-cotton hunting pant. Here is what I see when I look at them:
- Under $200
- Long inseam (35)
- Come in earth tones!! (Sitka - are you listening??)
- Hip Zips to vent (new for 2013)
- Can order in your actual waist size (None of this S,M,L)

Now - I'm all ears. If someone knows of another brand that has a pair of pants that has all those features and can match that price - I'd be happy to hear about it. I still dont own a pair of Attack pants. That initial sticker shock has worn off as I realize - for the features they have, its a pretty darn good deal

Guys I started this for people that didnt know about KUIU and wanted to learn. KUIU is great gear at a FAIR price. There may be better gear out there but most of it is more expensive. I hope this post has helped out those who were wondering about KUIU. It seems that most of the people who have tried KUIU LOVE it and those who are talking bad about it have not even tried it. There are PROS and CONS to every company, KUIU included so it all boils down to what works best for you. KUIU is now a option for the mountain hunter.

New? Really?

Have you heard about these new scopes? Leupald or something like that.

For the record, I haven't really heard anyone "talking bad" about it. I don't like that it is now made in China. I don't like that a pair of Attack pants costs $150. But in my opinion, that's not the same as "badmouthing" it.

I think peoples' ire was raised when it was declared, their products had "no equal".

I'm not badmouthing the Attack pants, I just have a hard time paying $150 for a pair of, well, non-exceptional pants. As noted above, there may be nothing else in that price range that compares, I don't know, but the maker can charge what he wants. If it's more than I want to pay for a pair of polyester pants, then for me, they are overpriced.

I think a LOT of products out there are overpriced based on marketing and perceived value.
Sitka and UnderArmor are two examples that I believe have become "fashionable and desirable" and that is reflected in the price.

I'm with you snubbie. I still don't own any KUIU gear. Just found in my search for hunting pants that the Attack offers quite a bit for the price.

If I'm not concerned about moisture, I still love the Arborwear Tech for a all around great choice.

Well if you decide to try a pair of Kuiu Attack pants you'll probably love them. I like mine a lot. For $80-$90 I'd absolutely LOVE them! Heck, for that price I'd maybe declare that they had "no equal"!

Called then yesterday and spoke about solid colors for 2013. Looks like brown and something unannounced. Going to wait for that and go with a solid color, put it through its paces in summer hikes and see how I like em.

If you can't find a good pair of reasonably priced pants from here....

http://www.mountaingear.com/webstor...22e97c618097bb4c17&voucherCode=22085

I could buy 3 pairs of good pants for $150. The problem I see with Kuiu as great as it may be is it being wholesale(read the lastest blog post). No where to try on any of the clothing line and it also means it never goes on sale or closeout. What gives me a giggle is people that boycott REI and the like but have no problem buying hunting clothing from china.

I will start by saying that I have spent some of my hard earned money on kuiu products. I don't make very much money for the work I do, so I am very conservative with what I spend on. I will not buy something without extensively researching it.

Some people that posted in this thread complained about not being informed they were moving production out of North America. Well I have been following the blog for two years now, and they made it very public that they were moving production to Toray's facilities. By the way, Toray is in Osaka, Japan. Not China.

Here is a excerpt off one of the blog posts:

"I want to follow up on The Vertical Supply Chain post to clear the air of the false claims and guesses made about the reasons for moving production to Toray�s facility and to give more insight to why I made this decision so you may better understand. Before this change, KUIU�s fabrics from Toray had a 9 month lead-time because Primeflex fabrics use Toray�s highest grade of yarn which is limited due to the quality standards for Primflex.

Once finished, the fabrics have to be shipped to Vancouver, which takes 21 days for ocean freight and a week to clear customs and arrive at the factory.

I set up production in Vancouver because Tamoda is a smaller factory with lower minimums, which I needed to start KUIU and I needed the flexibility of lower minimums to fill in product while we grew.

Tamoda produces a quality product but is limited in the volumes it can output due to their size. If space in the factory is available, Tamoda takes 60 to 90 days to cut and sew a run of a product.

This created a 12 month lead-time, best case, from the time I placed a purchase order to delivery to our warehouse.

The long lead times and limited factory space created over 2500 back orders this summer. We were not able put product on-line. Customers were canceling preorders and were upset they could not get gear in time for hunting season. I had to make a change, KUIU had out grown our supply chain.

Some have suggested Kifaru and Mystery Ranch have made domestic production work, why can�t KUIU? These are both fantastic brands with great products, but these companies make product to order and do most of their sewing in house. KUIU is a different business model. Sewing in house is something we are not set up to do or manage.

I did not want to just make a change to any factory. If lowering production cost was the goal, as so many have suggested, Toray�s facility is a bad choice. They are not a low cost supplier.

I went to Toray to see how we could change the entire supply chain. Being a forward thinking company they were willing to help. With no strings attached.

There will not be a reduction in quality or KUIU products becoming �More China junk� as many are claiming. I encourage any of you making this claim to research Toray. They are a World Leading company in several business categories that include Nano-technology and Chemistry, Industrial Chemicals, Medical, Carbon Fiber and Textiles. They did not become successful in these businesses by cutting corners in quality.

Toray makes the fiber, yarn, DWR, seamtape and heat bonding glue that goes into our products. They know how to build gear using Toray products better than a cut and sew factory in the USA, Canada, Vancouver or anywhere in the world for that matter. Our product quality will only increase, not decrease as so many have claimed."

Seems logical enough to me. I would prefer for them to be made in the USA but I understand why they moved it to Toray.

One thing that I really like about this company is that they actually tell you what they are doing and why. All I did to find this info was go onto their blog and type in "production" in the search bar, then I found the post about vertical supply chain. They aren't hiding anything if you take the time to actually look on their website.

And as for the Attack pants which were also discussed above, I did a lot of research on those pants before I bought them. I found kuiu's attack pant to be very reasonably priced for pants with 4 way stretch & DWR treated. From my research, I also concluded they were the nicest quality. That is why I bought them. They work great for me.

If anyone else out there found something better, I would like to know about it. Like I said at the beginning of my post, I don't make very much money. I would rather spend my time hunting in the mountains than sitting at a desk working (which I am supposed to be doing right now). So I try to stretch my dollar as far as possible while still getting the best gear I can afford. Right now, I think Kuiu offers the best dollar : quality ratio.

Yes there are other companies that you can get gear for cheaper, but I am not willing to risk taking that cheap gear into the mountains. I don't want to risk having cheap gear fail on me while on a hunt.

Anyone out there who has anything different, if you think you have a product that is better quality / price, lets get a head to head comparison going and see if we can together come to a conclusion of what gear is going to give us best quality for price.

Facts not opinions please.

I will start off the head to head comparison for pants with an example, if you think your pants are better, post up their specs and lets compare. Post up head to head comparisons of whatever you want (jackets, rain shells etc). I want to find the best gear that is affordable for someone like me who doesn't have very much money and has to resort to extensive online research and forum posts to find the best gear / value:

Kuiu Attack Pant

Price: $149.99

Technical Features
� Toray 225g/m2 4-Way Double Weave Stretch Woven Fabric
� Toray Kudos DWR
� 18.5 Ounces
� Mid-weight
� Durable

Construction
� DWR finish (Durable Water Repellent) helps bead water from fabric surface

Patterning
� Anatomical shaping for fit and comfort when climbing
� Gusseted crotch
� Articulated knees

Pocket Configuration
� Two thigh pockets #3 YKK zip
� Two hand pockets
� Two rear pockets #3 YKK zip
� Two hip-zips for ventilation #3 YKK zip (Verde Camo Only)

Zipper & Fly Configuration
� Front Fly #3 YKK Zip two zipper heads

Waist & Belt Configuration
� Web & Bar-tacked PU-button
� Belt Loops-double bar-tack

Inseam Length (inches)
� 35"

You're mostly correct. But, it wasn't until after products (parts of the Verde line IIRC) hit customers mailboxes with a Made in China that Jason followed up on the change. So if some bought because of the "Made in NA" label (which was stupid IMO since it was only assembled here) I can see why they feel duped, especially since Jason touted transparency (but again I feel he handled it well).

Toray Japan had always made the fabrics for the pants and jackets and the Merino Company (New Zealand) made the wool. The only thing that changed was the cut and sew, so again I can kind of see why people got their panties in a wad, but at the end of the day it is a minimal change.

Jason has a business to run and no one really knows what the day to day logistics were. We can assume, make generalizations, and share our opinions on the internet. But, if you don't have product in stock, you can't sell it. My local gunshop had a great December and January, but now he has nothing in stock and cash flow is waning. He won't be out of business tomorrow, but he has to seriously monitor is cash because he doesn't know when he'll next get inventory.

Dagger, you are a new member here and seem rather concerned with what you refer to as ...facts... and prefer these over ...opinions....

I have two issues with your post and the first is what is your ...desk... job and where do you work and hunt these ...mountains..., that you also refer to?

The second is that you appear to not understand that opinions on gear, guns, etc, are often the result of very extensive USE of these items in actual field activities, thus, said opinions have a factual basis. To simply compare the "specs" of two pair of pants or three shells by three makers is the stuff of slick magazine articles and "24Hr" is quite some way beyond that in terms of the "hands-on" field experience of most of the posters here.

So, while I respect your preference in choosing pants or whatever, I also know that my choices are often based on opinions by persons who have used gear items in conditions similar to those in my region and this works well for me.

BTW, would you have any business connection with KUIU?

Having run a business I cannot imagine the nightmare a 12 month lead time would cause. Think about that for a minute, can you imagine trying to guess 1 year in advance what you will sell and the capital outlay that would require for stock, not to mention floor space and all the costs that go with it.

Let me assure you, carrying large amounts of inventory carries it's own problems and headaches.

Looks pretty simple to me, he had a choice, adapt or die.

Having Toray do the cut and sew on the very product they design and manufacture makes perfect sense to me.

We got the same guys posting the same flak on every KUIU thread that pops up. I don't see anyone complaining about the quality, function or the product not living up to what is promised. They just endlessly complain that it's not made stateside anymore.

I remember seeing numerous posts of people complaining that KUIU couldn't fill orders, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

For those of you that are unhappy about him moving production to the Toray facilities, we get it, now let it go and contribute something useful to the threads about KUIU gear or refrain from posting.

Yes I am new to this forum, I am a fan of the kuiu gear I have, but was wondering if other people had found anything out there that my research had missed. I am trying to decide what gear I should spend my money on.

I have been saving up for a hunting trip, I am hoping to go to Alaska for a goat hunt in the Chugach range. Hopefully I can make it happen. I am saving up money for the trip and for some new gear.

I agree with what you are saying about opinions and facts. In hindsight what I said was wrong. Opinions matter. What I was trying to get across was rather than posting replies like, "I like this more than I like that." I was hoping people would reply with, "I like this because... and give reasons and examples." And I think the fabrics and treatments used do matter, so I was hoping people would reply with that information as well as their opinions on the products. So I guess reasons and examples would fall under the categories of opinions. So I apologize for my error.

You sir, are a very smart man! But, I need to know where you work and what mountains you hunt!! LOL KUIU works great in Alaska for sheep and goats,as does alot of other clothing. Just comes down to a matter of choice. I get more than enough opinions/advice/facts from guides and fellow hunters up here,on what works and what doesnt. Good luck on elk this year.

What all this boils down to is basically personal preference. What works for one may not work for others. The great thing about living in the USA is we can use what we want. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. There is a lot to choose from weather it be sitting in a tree waiting on a giant whitetail or going on a extreme mountain hunt chasing goats or sheep we have the best gear to keep us comfortable, dry, and warm.

Ah Kuiu. You too can spend $150 on a pant with six belt loops that are sewn onto the pants like an afterthought. Nothing like a bunched up waistband and some super thick beltloops rubbing raw under your pack's waistbelt when you're two days into a 3-day packout.

They are very, very stylish though. Wouldn't want to look frumpy in your hero shots.

Joel

I was just on Rokslide and you posted a month ago were done with Kuiu because of wait times and they moved production overseas and that you sold all your kuiu gear?

I have 2 pairs of attack pants. They are ok. The fabric balled up after 3 days of use. Funny thing it seems like kuiu has sales all time and it pisses people off that buy at full price and the next day they get an email that its on sale and this is during hunting season. Hard to not find outdoor research gear at sierra for 60% off or more

Kuiu = marketing over substance. No different than Sitka, just slightly higher qulality. Slightly.

Kuiu packs... no thanks.

Yes that is true but I did love the gear. Also was disappointed about the sizing issue. BUT I got a email from Jason and then a phone call from Jason wanting to make it right. Jason went out of his way to help me with the issues and I found out what great customer service is about. That's is why I went back to KUIU

Brad- mind me asking what hunting pants you use? Looking for something that won't soak up moisture too quickly, has long inseam, and comes in earth tones.