Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Shroud of Turin....again

This thing has been researched repeatedly and the majority of the evidence is that it's a fake. I see that another researcher has decided it's from the 1st century so it's automatically declared to be authentic. It's a never ending argument. Those who believe it's real will always believe that no matter what the evidence, and those who believe it's fake won't be changing their minds, either.

Personally, I don't know whether it's a real man or not, but it doesn't match the Biblical description of how Jesus was buried. I'll go with the Bible every time.

SHROUD

It�s a real mystery. The wound profile would match it either to Jesus or someone who was killed in the same way. I have a hard time saying it�s a fake. It passes some very high tech testing that no one could have known about several hundred years ago. Still I come back to the �if it�s too good to be true, it probably isn�t�. If it�s the burial shroud of Jesus, it�s just too incredible of a find�that�s just the skeptic in me.

Still, I think people put way too much religious significance in the thing, some even bordering on idolatry.

A year or two ago there was a show on TV, something like �The Face of Jesus�, or something like that. Anyhow, they did 3D scans and compiled what they claimed is the face of Jesus (or whomever the poor guy was who was wrapped in the thing). That show detailed out a lot of the technology that has gone into the evaluation of the shroud. And of course, it was rather one sided.

The one part that really struck me was when they imaged it, and started separating out the colors and stains. Then they isolated just the blood stains. After seeing that, IF it is the shroud of Jesus, which is a pretty big IF�His death was massively brutal. Now the Bible details it all out, and it�s pretty brutal in The Bible�but the blood stains on the shroud cover literally every inch of the man�s body. They left not a single area where blood wasn�t drawn. Thank God we live in the times we live in.

One thing about the testing- carbon 14 dating is loaded with false data. If someone stuck it in a drawer 300 years ago, and the part that rubbed the drawer picked up the remnants of a 301 year old bed bug, when that part is tested, it yeilds a 301 year old result.

Some scientists in Anarctica found a frozen seal. the did C14 and found it to be several thousand years old. they tested a freshly killed one that found- rigormortis had not set in. It tested to be older than the one in the ice.

The freshly dead one had been ingesting water loaded with stuff that's been floating in the ocean for millions of years.

The shroud could have picked up carbon based dust for 2,000 years.

Is it the shroud of Christ? I don't know. But He died and rose again. What he laid on in the tomb, while interesting, didn't provide me with the gift of salvation. He did.

I think the amazing thing is that if it is a medieval "fake", scientists till can't explain how it was done or replicate it.

Real or fake, it don't signify. I believe he died, descended into Hell, and on the third day he rose again. He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead.

That's what I care about. Not any relic, real or fake.

A blessed Good Friday to all who care about it.

Bulls eye, Doc.

Who cares?
What is wrong with people?

Everything we need is in the word... and I recall exactly zero scriptures mentioning a rag.

A useless, meaningless, scrap of cloth amounting to nothing more than distraction.
Real or fake, throw it in the trash.

Luke 24:12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

John 20:5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in.
6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there,
7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus� head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.

These Biblical accounts don't leave much room for a shroud.

Very interesting - I am always a bit suspicious of "scientifically conclusive" evidence.

I think the amazing thing is that if it is a medieval "fake", scientists till can't explain how it was done or replicate it. [/quote]

Bingo! Give the man his prize.

The shroud is scorch marks burned into the cloth as if done my an extremely bright flash of light. We know where it has been for the last several hundred years and we still do not have the technology to reproduce it. It also shows facts about scurging and crusifiction that we only recently understand due to archaeological finds.

My biggest wonder is why God left it here on earth. It has become an object or worship to some and that is never a good thing. It does not make any difference to me one wy of another but it does cause one to wonder.

Again, it doesn't match the Biblical description of how Jesus was buried. He wasn't buried in a shroud. He was wrapped in strips of linen with a separate cloth around his head. While it might be a real shroud from some person who was executed, it wasn't Jesus. Who knows how it got that way.

Well trust me my friend. I am not the guy with the answers. And since it does not mess with my salvation it ranks in importance right up there with the how many angles on the head of a pin thing.

Most are circular; I suppose some might have a square head, giving them four angles.

An anecdote, not so much on the shroud, but about science and scientists.

Back when they started working on DNA a group got together to create a data base of people to learn where we all came from. Quick detail, it was a large specimen undertaking involving many sample gatherers. Around this same time was the hoopla about second hand smoke.

In blood samples for the DNA someone decided to also check nicotine levels. Turns out everyone has nicotine in their system, or at least everyone samples were taken from. The only exclusions were Inuits way up in the ice and snow, and Laplanders. Conclusion was that second hand smoke is so prevalent, everyone is infected with that poison nicotine. This was front section newspaper stuff, and set off a number of articles.

Until -

About 10 days later in the back of the paper, a botanist pointed out, leafy vegetation has nicotine in it naturally of varying levels, such as yep lettuce. Nicotine in such plants is natures defense from aphids. Who does not eat lettuce one time or another? People living in the arctic.


Everyday I experience a miracle. A 12 year old truck with original battery that still starts every time.

I say let's find the ark of covenants.

In Revelations, John says he saw it in heaven. Apparently God took it home somewhere along the line - probably when Soloman's temple was destroyed by Babylon.

Why all the fuss over a mysterious old rag of undetermined age and provenance?

The ground and the water that He walked on have been there, for all to see at any time, ever since He walked on 'em.

And several pretty persnickety people who were there with Him at the time have told us a lot of what He said to them and to many others. Seems to me that all that's what we all oughta be poring over so assiduously.

If you take an extremely legalistic approach, yes. But it could be conceivable that there was an overall shroud, a separate head wrap, and then the linen wrap. I believe that�s consistent with other bodies that have been discovered from the same general area and time frame. The linen held everything in place, and herbs and nice smelling things were inserted into the linen during the wrapping process. And we also know that the linen wrapping process was rather extensive, meaning it was put on there pretty thick. So it could be conceivable that a shroud may have been under the linen, or just not noticed. Or, it could have never been there. While I consider The Bible a very reliable historical document, the absence of something in scripture doesn�t always mean something.

"Conceivable" doesn't quite cut it as long as we have abundantly reported did and said to contemplate.

Well, I do think it is a most interesting historical artifact and it should be studied extensively. But it�s a physical historical artifact; it is not a spiritual artifact. On the spiritual side of things, many people put WAY too much emphasis on it, to the point of idolatry; and nothing good will ever come of that. If it�s the genuine article, then I think it�s an interesting historical artifact, but it has NO bearing on my faith whatsoever.

Its called Faith! I will leave it at that. This stuff always come up around this time of year for some reason, Oh its good Friday and Easter is on Sunday never mind.