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I have two .45-70s. I'd seriously consider a .450 if I found one but would get a lifetime supply of brass at the same time. I handload exclusively so either cartridge would work fine for me.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Brass seems to last a long time with my reloads using cast bullets. It is a shame that the belt is not in the same location as the other belted magnums. It would make for a good supply of cheep brass. I suppose that a rifle could be chambered in the .458 American 2" to solve this issue.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road. Really nothing is wrong with a 45/70 in the right platform. That said the 450M is everything a hot 45/70 wants to be in every 450M rifle. It is a cool round which is not to say a 45/70 is not
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Campfire Member
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There are some minor but important differences between Marlins in 45/70 and 450M. The 450 barrels and receivers feature Vee threads which essentially allow for greater material in the receiver area between the bottom of the chamber and the top of the magazine tube. Also as the belted 450 case is smaller in diameter than the rimmed 45/70 case, a smaller mag tube is used, again allowing more steel in a critical area where 45/70's sometimes fail. If you examine any of the photos where Marlin 45/70's have failed it is generally this area that lets go.
Having said that, a 45/70 loaded to around 30k pressures still provides plenty of performance and a considerable margin of safety. Besides, a 400 gr pill at 1800-1900 fps would take care of most animals roaming the earth.
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Campfire Outfitter
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... Having said that, a 45/70 loaded to around 30k pressures still provides plenty of performance and a considerable margin of safety. Besides, a 400 gr pill at 1800-1900 fps would take care of most animals roaming the earth. JFE Thanks for the info. many folks sometimes take the Rifle construction for granted. I Load my 450M with Speer 400g bullets and I will tell you 1900+ Ft/sec is plenty. Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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In a Browning the 450 Marlin can load spitzer X bullets loaded long to 50,000PSI. This puts it in a different class!
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Campfire Ranger
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It appears to me that the 450M was developed to give NON-reloaders the power of what 45/70 reloaders have been getting for years out of the 1895. For a guy who does not nor wants to reload,it is the answer for real. No need either way to push pressures into ridiculous territories any how as the 45 caliber w/a slug of 400 g or better is a killing machine from 1200 to 2000 fps. So pick yer poison.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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New Member
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I had the same choice to make (45-70 or 450) a couple of years ago and went with 45-70. I don't reload so the choice was easy. The range of loads is so great for the 70 that I could get ammo to fit any of my needs. I bought a Marlin 1895 and have never had a regret. I love the thought of shooting a round that has been around for over a century. The bear in my picture was taken with that rifle in New Brunswick Canada. The grand ole 45-70 is a classic round made for a classy rifle. Go ahead a get yourself a piece of history
Doc_H
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BTW I looked for several Months to find a decent quality set of scope rings and mounts,for My blr, I wanted a weaver style set as Ive found that style seems to hold up and have fewer failures in the field. several places I contacted listed mounts and rings, but I ordered a couple sets, from local shops that were listed as one piece base sets only to need to return those when for various reasons I found they didn,t fit correctly,(there seems to be two separate screw spacing versions) I wanted a set for my 450 marlin, caliber BROWNING LEVER RIFLE,(BLR) , All I got was several trips to local gun-shops to purchase and return mounts that failed to fit correctly UNTIL I just gave up on finding mounts and rings locally and ordered a MILLETT #CP40714 set with a two piece base that fit and function perfectly
BE aware the factory rear sight on the BLR can be in the way, for clearing some scopes
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I would not count on Remington/Cerberus continuing to support the 450M. Making your own brass is problematic because the headspace band is thicker than the H&H parent case. I guess you could run it as long as you can and shoot the barrel out, then rebarrel to whatever. Good luck with it.
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I think a great many guys who stick their nose up at the idea of using what they perceive as older lower velocity cartridges like a hot loaded 45/70 or 450 marlin have that opinion because they have little or no experience in the field with someone using one. at the risk of proving Im an old geezer,Ill tell you this. as an example, back in the late 1969 season here in Florida I was hunting with a guy, who had just purchased a 444 marlin, JACK, had sighted it in 3" high at 100 yards the previous weekend and had a weaver 4x scope on the rifle,he had loaded it with speer 3/4 jacket hollow points. JACK, was using the rifle he had purchased for an up coming elk hunt after reading the advertizement posted below. we were walking across a large field when we saw two bucks stand up at about 150 yard out and stand staring at us, in those days the daily bag limit was two deer a day. before I could even say a thing JACK, fired that rifle twice in very rapid succession and to my amazed young eyes both deer dropped on the spot. I,d never seen deer drop instantly when hit and I sure as hell never saw two deer shot and dropped almost instantly within feet of each other. right then I knew I needed to buy a similar rifle, which I did as soon as funds allowed and it worked great for several decades. I eventually sold that rifle to upgrade to the 45/70 version and I sold the 45/70 after about 15 years to upgrade to the 450 marlin BLR and in each case the results were both impressive and in my opinion an improvement, (the 450 marlin BLR is not significantly more powerful than a 45/70 but the BLR is more accurate in my experience,and handles better, I primarily hunt ELK in thick cover and wooded canyons. I think most guys read far to many magazine articles and get the idea most game is shot at extreme ranges mandating a flat trajectory rifle, but its been my experience that shots over 250 yards are rather rare. yes when I first started hunting out west I had assumed the same thing and used a 30/06 which I eventually upgraded to a 340 wby, but the truth is that all but 2-3 shots Ive ever taken at elk, and of all the elk Ive killed, could very easily have been made with a 45/70 as I said, shots over 250 yards have been rare. while Ive used a 340 wby and 375 H&H much more often, Ive used a 45/70 with hard cast gas check bullets on two elk and dozens of hogs , its a darn effective caliber, once you can punch a big hole in one side and out the other on an elk, the markings on the brass cartridge case are not critical
Last edited by 340mag; 05/27/13.
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... once you can punch a big hole in one side and out the other on an elk, the markings on the brass cartridge case are not critical Perfectly stated. +1
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The 450 Marlin has been sneered at for many years, often by those whom have never used it in the field. I have one in the Marlin 1895 with 24" barrel with receiver sight. Accuracy is amazing with 350 gr loads to 200 yds. I have been using this rifle for about 10 years.
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The 450 Marlin has been sneered at for many years, often by those whom have never used it in the field. I have one in the Marlin 1895 with 24" barrel with receiver sight. Accuracy is amazing with 350 gr loads to 200 yds. I have been using this rifle for about 10 years. This
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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The .45-70 has really stood the test of time. It is available everywhere. Jack O'Connor used to talk about traveling to hunt and lost luggage. Where are you going to get a box of .450 Marlin at 2200 in Yellowknife?
I used to have a .444 Marlin and now have things like a .348 Winchester and a Sharps in .45-100. The .45-70 is a better answer because you can get Garrett and Buffalo cartridges loaded up and all the brass you want for cheap.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
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I just purchased a BLR in 450. I know I can load it hotter than any Marlin, so I get performance beyond what is possible with an old 45-70. A BLR can handle 300 and 338 win mags, so this is doable and safe. I own the BLR '81 (takedown) & the Winchester 94TE (takedown). Both are in 450 Marlin which is a real slick cycling cartridge in a levergun. I own several 45-70s....Pedersoli 86/71, Marlin 1895G, Marlin 1895GS, Baikal SxS, NEF Pardner B/O action. All good guns.
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Campfire Ranger
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If you handload get the 45-70
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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If you handload get the 45-70 WHY other then the price and avail of brass ? RJ
375 H&H The Real KING of 375 's
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Just got a BLR in 450 Marlin - i have a 95G in 45-70 so we shall see ! RJ
375 H&H The Real KING of 375 's
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I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!
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