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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,240 Likes: 2 |
I didn't watch the whole thing. I wonder how there happened to be a video camera going the whole time? Or was that explained later on?
That made me think of a set up. Although the cop sure was preachy on the tape.
Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Outfitter
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It seems to me to be self fulfilling. If one is approached by an officer in general terms is one thing. I have conversations with them on a regular basis. They (and you) are just people. Why not be courteous.
But if one detains me then there is no upside of answering their questions. Only equal position or downside. It is then up to the officer to determine if it goes any further. They can either let me go or take me in. Either way I haven't made my position any worse by keeping my mouth politely shut. This stuff is so subjective, it's almost not worth discussing. If you matched the description of a fleeing felon and the answer of a few simple questions guaranteed your release, would you refuse? I would absolutely refuse in that scenario. Again, there is not a guarantee of my release by answering a few simple questions.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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In most cases you would be correct, especially if you are guilty. On the other hand, innocent people can not make their situation worse by telling the truth. And yes, Departments usually require that they tell a person what they are being charged with, if asked. You are seriously naieve if you think law enforcement cannot and will not take innocence and try and transmute it into guilt. It can happen, but you are the na�ve one if you think that being uncooperative, for no reason beyond paranoia, with LE is your key to happiness.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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Maybe I missed something but I don't see anything wrong with the arrest. She was home free and the officer was leaving when it looked like she made a move on him.
If she did indeed make contact, however slight, I think it will go as a good arrest. Boloney. She was closing the door behind him out of impatience for him being there too long. I would have stayed back until he was across the threshold and closed the door (actually I wouldn't have let that snide punk in in the first place, but have no parolee in my house either) but there was absolutely no reason for him to react that way just because HE felt uncomfortable with a little girl! They continued because they had to. Once he had her on the floor and knew he was being recorded he had to keep up the facade of legitimate arrest. People with that much power (real, or in this case perceived) just can't admit they're wrong. I hope those two get canned and their careers ruined. We need more of that. I respect police in general, but too many things like this building up are really giving them a bad name. My best friend growing up is an officer and treats everybody like a perp or a potential victim in need of big brother to protect them. Seems to me too many guys like that create a bad situation for the many good ones out there. In my friend's defense, he is working in inner city where those stereotypes are largely true... Sad state we're in today!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Pat,
The post above mentions kidnapping as have a few others. Don't know if it goes that far, but at what point does an officer need to inform the person what they are being arrested for? I have never been arrested so I don't know these things. Just curious if they are supposed to tell you as they are cuffing you or can it wait until they get to the station or what. I don't know about Alaska State law. In Texas, it is not required by statute, but is required by most Department's policy. In reference to "kidnapping", that is foolish. False arrest is the term. Alaska State Law does not require it by statute. The guiding reference is the 9th Circuit, then SCOTUS, who have said that a person must be formally charged and taken before a judge within 48 hours of arrest. That was 24 hours until the mid-90's. I don't remember the exact case, but I do remember it came out of California. That said, AST's policy is to inform the person at the time they are taken into custody of what the initial charges will be. That is usually about the time the cuffs go on. His silence on the charges is going to be another piece used against him. His affidavit does not mesh with the video, either. How the D.A. saw fit to file those charges is beyond me. Rookies everywhere. Longbob, Pat is shooting straight when he said the correct term is false arrest. That, and excessive use of force go beyond state criminal courts straight to Federal court where it is known as a Title 1983 violation, which is a civil rights violation. The penalties are severe, both for the officer and the agency. Once the 1983 violation is established, it is usually a matter of how many zeroes go on the check. Even if this Trooper walks, his credibility is shot. He will be a big ass target for every defense attorney and prosecutors will be very hesitant to file charges on any resisting, assault, or Disorderly Conduct arrest he brings in. He is now a walking liability for AST. Ed Wow! Thanks for the detailed response. It sounds like that mouthy bitch has the trooper by the balls and he is in a world of hurt on this one. I won't have to go out on much of a limb and say that officers like Pat would have never let it escalate to that point. Experience and patience has its rewards.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Wow! Thanks for the detailed response. It sounds like that mouthy bitch has the trooper by the balls and he is in a world of hurt on this one. I won't have to go out on much of a limb and say that officers like Pat would have never let it escalate to that point.
Experience and patience has its rewards. Thanks for the compliment. The truth is that a good cop wouldn't stand around and listen to some dopehead skank...much less feel the need to preach to her.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I get it, but I don't condone it. I couldn't be a trooper, don't have enough cool hand luke in me to do so.
he's probably gonna wish he'd handled that much differently
and there's no way a citizen (even a mouthy one) should have to put up with physical abuse from public employees.
some lawyer on Kodiak is a happy camper tonite
dayum that's gonna leave a mark in my pfd! lol
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Bud, I don't envy the job you do, but thank goodness you do it with honor and help keep our state on the right side of things.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Watched the vid read the thread. I feel sorry for any guy who ever has to deal with a white trash bitch like that. All she had to do was talk reasonable,calmly and intelligently without all the [bleep] handwaving and body laguage to those troopers. there wouldn't have been any problems. I think she was looking to stage an incident also for financial gain. Why all the bullschit unless looking for some gain? Magnum Man
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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Bud, I don't envy the job you do, but thank goodness you do it with honor and help keep our state on the right side of things. Yeah a big +1 there. We have a fine force in the Michigan State Police here. Of course it's inherently problematic pidgeon-holing all members of ANY group! I am a banker... I understand!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Watched the vid read the thread. I feel sorry for any guy who ever has to deal with a white trash bitch like that. All she had to do was talk reasonable,calmly and intelligently without all the [bleep] handwaving and body laguage to those troopers. there wouldn't have been any problems. I think she was looking to stage an incident also for financial gain. Why all the bullschit unless looking for some gain? Magnum Man I see. So, if your manners don't meet the government's criteria for "niceness", they reserve the right to kick the schit out of you, drag you from your home and make up a crime to justify their actions? And its all your fault for having bad manners. Now I get it. Glad to have you lay it out there for us in black and white so we know exactly what we are up against.  Jordan
Last edited by RobJordan; 05/03/13.
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
____________________
My boss asked why I wasn't working. I told him I was being a democrat for Halloween.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
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Because she felt threatened and wanted space?
I don't think that what she did was wrong at all. Unwise yes, but I can't blame her. I hate people that I trust and respect sanctimoniously wagging their finger at me. Make it someone I mistrust and don't respect and it'll be tough for me to control myself.
She can't be older than what? 19 or 20? She is just a kid.
A better question is why the agent of the state who had a job to do didn't do what he ought and leave. He was supposed to be the professional on a mission there; she was just upset at her home being invaded and getting an unsolicited sermon.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
You're right. He needs to go ahead and get DOJ. He likes to argue way too much to survive in law enforcement.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,011 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,011 Likes: 4 |
Bud, I don't envy the job you do, but thank goodness you do it with honor and help keep our state on the right side of things. Yeah a big +1 there. We have a fine force in the Michigan State Police here. Of course it's inherently problematic pidgeon-holing all members of ANY group! I am a banker... I understand! Get a rope! 
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,696 Likes: 6 |
Ha ha he needs a "promotion" to Holder's right hand man  !
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,011 Likes: 4 |
Watched the vid read the thread. I feel sorry for any guy who ever has to deal with a white trash bitch like that. All she had to do was talk reasonable,calmly and intelligently without all the [bleep] handwaving and body laguage to those troopers. there wouldn't have been any problems. I think she was looking to stage an incident also for financial gain. Why all the bullschit unless looking for some gain? Magnum Man I see. So, if your manners don't meet the government's criteria for "niceness", they reserve the right to kick the schit out of you, drag you from your home and make up a crime to justify their actions? And its all your fault for having bad manners. Now I get it. Glad to have you lay it out there for us in black and white so we know exactly what we are up against. Jordan I did read it that way at all. She could have acted like a human and spoke reasonably or not at all. She did her part to escalate the situation. The trooper should have far better control than that. He was definitely in the dominant position. She got his goat and he did about the most stupid thing he could have.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3 |
You're right. He needs to go ahead and get DOJ. He likes to argue way too much to survive in law enforcement. And he probably won't. The bottom line here is, someone should have been the adult there and no one stepped up to the plate. What I hear Magnum Man saying is, if she had not been so reactive, he would have had no reason to be reactive and it would have ended differently. That is true. The Trooper should have had the maturity and professionalism to never let it get to where it did. He didn't and now people will pay. I can guarantee you that her attorney will be subpoenaing his personnel file and training file and those of the other Trooper. BTW, the reason I have been so vocal about this situation is that I used to work for AST before I went to work for Anchorage P.D. That is my old alma mater, so to speak, and it disturbs me on a personal level to see that crap happening there. Ed
Last edited by APDDSN0864; 05/03/13.
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Campfire Regular
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Fifty years ago she wouldn't have been talking like that......
Life/respect has morphed into life/drama i have no use for the later....
If 'ya can't put hot sauce on it, it ain't worth eat'n....
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 20,683 |
granted this guy was in the wrong.
but I have had some interaction with Alaska State troopers, some of the guys have simply been outstanding, but every one has been professional.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, and most of you guys realize that guy had a bad day. None of us know what happened to him before he made that call. Still his behavior was unexcusable.
but as a whole our troopers run a damned fine outfit.
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Because she felt threatened and wanted space?
I don't think that what she did was wrong at all. Unwise yes, but I can't blame her. I hate people that I trust and respect sanctimoniously wagging their finger at me. Make it someone I mistrust and don't respect and it'll be tough for me to control myself.
She can't be older than what? 19 or 20? She is just a kid.
A better question is why the agent of the state who had a job to do didn't do what he ought and leave. He was supposed to be the professional on a mission there; she was just upset at her home being invaded and getting an unsolicited sermon. Her home wasnt "being invaded". She let them in, also. She is on parole/probation which means they can make a warranties search any time they want to
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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