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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,720 |
Gold Dot for me in all my calibers...when the market gets better,I'll test again......
Come on America,
Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23 |
I like the idea of the rubber insert to keep the HP from clogging with material or tissue .
That is an innovative idea.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
No experience with it as I'm like you, I've got the lighter weight. IMO you don't want to be going heavier in 9mm for self defense. Why would you want more penetration than the normal 115 grain +p+ affords? My choice in the 9 has been for a long time, the 115 grain Cor-Bon +P load. When Marshall had his index going, these type loads were running almost 90% one-shot stops whereas the best 147 grain loads were running significantly less. Most departments backed off of them even though they were highly touted by the FBI scientists who IMO are preoccupied with penetration, which is obviously only one aspect of the equation. The 135 grain weight sounds more like a bullet you'd want in the Super. The FBI puts a priority on penetration depth because they want a lateral hit to an arm to drive on through to the heart or spine, i.e., puncture both sides of the arm, penetrate into the torso, and on through to the heart or spine. If you take that out of the equation, most commonly available rounds in service sidearm chamberings are fine. Add that in, and only a few are capable of both that level of penetration and some degree of expansion, too. They consider expansion as a lower priority compared to penetration, though, i.e., they'll sacrifice impressive and reliable expansion for impressive and reliable penetration if it comes to that, and I can see their reasoning. Nine times out of ten, you won't need a round to pierce both sides of an arm and then reach the heart, but when you do, you do. That may be true but what are you sacrificing for 10% of your hits in the other 90%? If you've got a bullet that just whizzes on through you not only put bystanders at risk but you also don't have the greater wounding value that expansion creates.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
at least you will have a better blood trail if they decide to run off after being hit .
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I like the idea of the rubber insert to keep the HP from clogging with material or tissue .
That is an innovative idea. You pretty much have that in the Zombiemax ammo from Hornady. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/10/14/hornady-zombie-max/
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
at least you will have a better blood trail if they decide to run off after being hit . That's what the 50-90 Sharps was made for...to replace puny 9mms for those in the know. 
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I'm anxiously awaiting Hornady's introduction of the zombie rounds for my Sharps.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
You probably won't have to wait long, people are eating this Zombie chit up
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,702
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
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No experience with it as I'm like you, I've got the lighter weight. IMO you don't want to be going heavier in 9mm for self defense. Why would you want more penetration than the normal 115 grain +p+ affords? My choice in the 9 has been for a long time, the 115 grain Cor-Bon +P load. When Marshall had his index going, these type loads were running almost 90% one-shot stops whereas the best 147 grain loads were running significantly less. Most departments backed off of them even though they were highly touted by the FBI scientists who IMO are preoccupied with penetration, which is obviously only one aspect of the equation. The 135 grain weight sounds more like a bullet you'd want in the Super. The FBI puts a priority on penetration depth because they want a lateral hit to an arm to drive on through to the heart or spine, i.e., puncture both sides of the arm, penetrate into the torso, and on through to the heart or spine. If you take that out of the equation, most commonly available rounds in service sidearm chamberings are fine. Add that in, and only a few are capable of both that level of penetration and some degree of expansion, too. They consider expansion as a lower priority compared to penetration, though, i.e., they'll sacrifice impressive and reliable expansion for impressive and reliable penetration if it comes to that, and I can see their reasoning. Nine times out of ten, you won't need a round to pierce both sides of an arm and then reach the heart, but when you do, you do. That may be true but what are you sacrificing for 10% of your hits in the other 90%? If you've got a bullet that just whizzes on through you not only put bystanders at risk but you also don't have the greater wounding value that expansion creates. EE, You are operating off old technology and information regarding the 147 gr. 9mm. Today's 147 gr. Federal HST, Ranger T or Gold Dot is far removed from the old subsonic load of Marshall & Sanow data (if it is actually "data" is debatable - a different argument).
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,300 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,300 Likes: 15 |
Hornady makes probably the best Quaility off the shelf ammo you can buy for the money, & they do extensive research on all of their product lines before release. I have yet to try it in 9mm, but I'd bet it will work as well as any 9mm ammo out there. That being said, the only 9mm handgun I have left is the little Kahr CMP-9 I carry it loaded with the Speer 9mm 124gr. +P JHP as a backup to my .45acp, because it rides comfortably in the pocket of my Wrangler Slacks. I prefer the Speer ammo mainly because I know it's accurate & super reliable in my Kahr 9mm. It's also what our TX State Troppers are issued for their back-up guns in 9mm. Of course our Troopers are issued .357 Sigs as Duty Weapons. They also use only Speer Ammo. I've not been able to try any of the Critical Duty in 9mm in my handgun due to the ammo shortage. But I'll give it a try as soon as I am able to find some available. I'm running pretty low on my supply of 9mm Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P ammo, and haven't been able to buy any of it locally, either. I refuse to pay the outragess prices that the local ammo gougers are charging 
Last edited by chlinstructor; 05/12/13.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
I just ordered two hundred rounds of the Hornady Critical Duty Plus P to try , can have to much ammo.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
No experience with it as I'm like you, I've got the lighter weight. IMO you don't want to be going heavier in 9mm for self defense. Why would you want more penetration than the normal 115 grain +p+ affords? My choice in the 9 has been for a long time, the 115 grain Cor-Bon +P load. When Marshall had his index going, these type loads were running almost 90% one-shot stops whereas the best 147 grain loads were running significantly less. Most departments backed off of them even though they were highly touted by the FBI scientists who IMO are preoccupied with penetration, which is obviously only one aspect of the equation. The 135 grain weight sounds more like a bullet you'd want in the Super. The FBI puts a priority on penetration depth because they want a lateral hit to an arm to drive on through to the heart or spine, i.e., puncture both sides of the arm, penetrate into the torso, and on through to the heart or spine. If you take that out of the equation, most commonly available rounds in service sidearm chamberings are fine. Add that in, and only a few are capable of both that level of penetration and some degree of expansion, too. They consider expansion as a lower priority compared to penetration, though, i.e., they'll sacrifice impressive and reliable expansion for impressive and reliable penetration if it comes to that, and I can see their reasoning. Nine times out of ten, you won't need a round to pierce both sides of an arm and then reach the heart, but when you do, you do. That may be true but what are you sacrificing for 10% of your hits in the other 90%? If you've got a bullet that just whizzes on through you not only put bystanders at risk but you also don't have the greater wounding value that expansion creates. EE, You are operating off old technology and information regarding the 147 gr. 9mm. Today's 147 gr. Federal HST, Ranger T or Gold Dot is far removed from the old subsonic load of Marshall & Sanow data (if it is actually "data" is debatable - a different argument). Whether you like the execution of Marshall...and Ayoob's one-shot stop indexes or not, the idea was a sound one. The methodology was even okay. The thing is, nobody else that I'm aware of is doing such a thing. The FBI is the most able entity to, but they are so political that you can't trust any of their stuff and they were going in a different direction anyway. Bottom-line...yes, the data may be dated, but the 9 is an awfully small case to be upping the bullet weight up much above 115 grains.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I just ordered two hundred rounds of the Hornady Critical Duty Plus P to try , can have to much ammo. That is the truth. I just went to Walmart because the wifey needed a few things...about $160 worth. I left two or three boxes of 40 there the other day in case somebody needed it better than me. Of course it and ALL other pistol calibers were sold the frick out. They had three AR's and a guy there wanting to buy one. The Walmart employee wouldn't sell him one because get this...it was about 9:20 pm and NICS closes at 10...He said they didn't have the personnel to fill out the paperwork right then and for the guy to come back tomorrow. I shouldn't have said anything because it wasn't my business but I told the fella who wanted the gun, "if it was me they said that to, I'd be pisssed off,". I think the Walmart guy heard me too although I wasn't actively trying to make him hear me. I was steamed though because I know that's not Walmart's policy and that the employee probably just didn't know how to check the forms over. There are enough damned regulations with the government without some moron making up his own because either he's too stupid to be working at Walmart or Walmart is too damned cheap to hire somebody who can guide a customer through a gun purchase. It just hit me wrong.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,114
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,114 |
I am unaware of any major law enforcement agencies that issue Hornady ammunition. There must be a reason for that....
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 94
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 94 |
I bought a box of critical duty 135 +p a while ago for my Ruger LC9, I only ran 5 shots to check for accuracy and feeding, recoil was shout and function OK, but wouldn't want a steady diet of it.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450 |
I am unaware of any major law enforcement agencies that issue Hornady ammunition. There must be a reason for that.... Because it takes the friggin government forever to go through all the bullschit to make changes to anything.....bottom line, if they are content with the ammo they use and there is not a major cost factor, then there is no reason for them to change. The Hornady critical duty stuff has been out less than a year, no way any major department has had time to evaluate and make a change. One major thing that has been mentioned is the plug that fills the hollow point up....that is a major improvement over "open" ammo that can get plugged by heavy clothing or prematurely expand and lack good penetration.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
-Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I am unaware of any major law enforcement agencies that issue Hornady ammunition. There must be a reason for that.... Because it takes the friggin government forever to go through all the bullschit to make changes to anything.....bottom line, if they are content with the ammo they use and there is not a major cost factor, then there is no reason for them to change. The Hornady critical duty stuff has been out less than a year, no way any major department has had time to evaluate and make a change. One major thing that has been mentioned is the plug that fills the hollow point up....that is a major improvement over "open" ammo that can get plugged by heavy clothing or prematurely expand and lack good penetration. Yes and just because somebody is unaware of it doesn't mean it's not happening. I think the plug is to improve feeding in some cases as well, especially in 45 ACP.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
I bought a box of critical duty 135 +p a while ago for my Ruger LC9, I only ran 5 shots to check for accuracy and feeding, recoil was shout and function OK, but wouldn't want a steady diet of it. I will be using this in my full size M&P and will use the Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr i now have the M&P loaded with to my Springfield XD Sub Compact 9mm which has a much shorter barrel .
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
What's the MV on this 135gr +P ?
If it's in the 1200 fps neighborhood, it would seem like a pretty good place to be for 9mm.
My 9mm load is the 147gr XTP at 1100 fps, via 5.0gr Unique, and 4.5" bbl, (Glock).
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
According to Hornady it is 1110 , but I'm sure it will vary from one handgun to another depending on barrel length [video:youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5mpXZCQhh7s[/video]
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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