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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Seems there is a moving dynamic between bullet construction, bullet performance and velocity. Faster may not always be better.
The old standard of big bullets at 2,400 fps seems to have stood the test of time on large stuff. Maybe that's why the '06 and similar, using heavy for caliber bullets at more modest velocities, seem to get the job done time and time again on PG and lighter animals.
Maybe those hunters of old knew something modern hunters are learning.
Our long range hunting rifles benefit from hi vel, high B.C. projectiles. If most shots on African PG are at moderate ranges, all that extra oomph may be wasted, or at worse, a hindrance, bullet selection notwithstanding.
DF Well stated DF!! I've always leaned this way after of course, with mishaps of pushing bullets to fast and having them fail! There's a bunch of folks on the board that have killed more animals than I but I still have some hands on experience that says go heavy and keep it modest. IE heavy for bore/cal and keep the speed reasonable.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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DF,
I do know that cup-and-core bullets are still quite popular in Africa among local hunters, partly because both bullets and ammo tend to be MUCH more expensive over there. A PH friend of mine also owns a sporting goods store in Kimberley, South Africa, and when I was last in there in 2007, there were a PILE of Sierra bullets for sale, with a low percentage of Nosler Partitions and some South African premiums. The Sierras were priced about like Partitions are over here, and the Partitions were at least twice as much. The Sierras were mostly .270 and up, and almost universally in heavier weights, including 220-grain .30's and 250-grain .338's. The bullets under .270 were mostly .224's and 6mm's, which work fine for culling smaller animals such as springbok and impala.
Another South African PH buddy is fond of the 150-grain Hornady Interlock in his .270, for both culling medium-sized animals from warthog to hartebeest, and for backing up clients after the same range of animals. But on anything bigger he carries his .375 H&H--often loaded with 300-grain Sierras.
Another uses a 7x57 for that sort of work, with a local brand of ammo loaded with a 170-grain roundnose. He never had to use it when I was there, but a few weeks ago a local friend here in Montana hunted with him, using a 7mm Remington Magnum with 160-grain Nosler Partitions. I haven't talked to my friend yet but he sent me a condensation of the hunt: The 7mm Magnum worked great on his first two animals, a kudu and blue wildebeest, but then the scope went haywire. (I haven't asked the brand yet, but suspect it was a variable!) He ended up using the PH's 7x57 on the rest of his animals. I dunno what they were yet, but they all died pronto! Ingwe should be along in a bit to take a bow and claim full credit for that pearl of wisdom...  DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Funny, someone should PM him and let him know folks are speaking of the ol 7 Mauser. It's one caliber I always wanted but never bought. Perhaps because I always wanted it in a purdy Mauser bolt or a No.1 both of which seem hard to come by and have eluded me. The 7X57 is the grand daddy of all things good though. I don't mind the bigger faster crowd, it has it's place and leads to more development in all arena's and creates interest in new toys. All of which is good for the sport. Myself, I have become quite comfy with my '06's running 180's-220's at a rather pedestrian pace. My fav happens to be 200 partitions fed by RL 22 out of my No.1 RSI. Second place is a tie with 220 and 180 RN slugs with either RL22 or a variant of 4831. I may be talked into a '06 AI project though, just for the whole case life aspect 
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bought my first 7x57 in 1974, and have owned and hunted with at least a dozen since. In Africa have taken animals from springbok to kudu and wildebeest, and in North America from pronghorn to bull moose. Ranges have been out to around 375 yards, and the bullets included Barnes TSX's, Hornady Interlocks, Norma Oryxes, North Forks, Nosler Ballistic Tips and Partitions, Sierra GameKings and others I've probably forgotten. It works.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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It's that kind of talk that will get me into hot water with the Misses.... 
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Well, basically all that kind of talk does is prove a lot of cartridges will work when pointed correctly.
But the 7x57 is indeed just a slightly smaller (and lighter recoiling) version of the .30-06!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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But the 7x57 is indeed just a slightly smaller (and lighter recoiling) version of the .30-06!
But significantly more skookum.... 
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Remember when every article about the .222 said it was a miniature .30-06? Well, I did some geometric comparisons a few years ago, and found the .222 most closely matched a scaled-down 7x57.
Dunno what that proves, but there it is!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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I bought my first 7x57 in 85 and like an idiot rebarrelled it to 308. I have since rectified that oversight by another purchase. Since I only use the 7x57 on whitetail I have settled on 140 gr bullets although the heavies shoot very well in it. It has been suggested to me that I rebarrel the 308 back, but it shoots between .1 and .3 inches depending on my state of mind. Worse grup ever was 1.25 inches on a cold January day. I cannot think of changing anything on that rifle.
My 30-06 was fed 165gr tsx for Africa and did well.
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Ahhh, just knew Ingwe would come through...  Baiting him with a 7x57 is not too unlike throwing a piece of raw meat to a junk yard dog... DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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medicman,
In my experience, it's hard to see any difference in field performance between the 7x57 and .308, though some people claim they can.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Just a matter of taste. The .308 is proven in the game fields and without a doubt in the fields of battle. IMHO the 7X57 is a wee bit more nostalgic and is oober cool to me because of it. The sad thing is after reading this thread is I went to the Mauser web page and couldn't find a new production model readily chambered in 7x57. Plenty of 7x64, 8x68S, 6.5X57 (which is damn tempting) but no original 7 
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, that sucks.
.308 factory ammo and brass are also a lot more available (at least during normal times) than 7x57, the big reason I have two .308's and only one 7x57. (Of course, the 7x57 is a perfect custom rifle, but one of the .308's is a Merkel single-shot with great wood, which ain't bad either!)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Well, basically all that kind of talk does is prove a lot of cartridges will work when pointed correctly.
But the 7x57 is indeed just a slightly smaller (and lighter recoiling) version of the .30-06! Exactly correct,but we can say the same thing about about the .260,6.5x55,.270,7mm-08,and .308. Plus about another 20 cartridges that are in the same class. Right now I've decided the perfect deer gun would be a Merkel or Blaser single shot in 7x57R. Next week I'll be smitten by something else. 
Last edited by ruraldoc; 05/15/13.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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Remember when every article about the .222 said it was a miniature .30-06? Well, I did some geometric comparisons a few years ago, and found the .222 most closely matched a scaled-down 7x57.
Dunno what that proves, but there it is! Well I think it means that a good design is a good design.  Recalling where these two cartridges originated,it is no surprise the 30/06 and 7x57 ended up being pretty comparable.After all it was the 7x57 that kicked American butt,and we invented the 30/06 to provide our forces with something comparable,but in 30 caliber.Kicking up the proportions a bit accomplished that,I think,but no doubt the 7x57 is the bee's knee's in a light recoiling cartridge for BG,as people have proved for over 100 years. I recall that JOC, his wife Eleanor, and Fred Huntington all went to Africa together with Eleanor using a 7x57,JOC a 7 REM Mag,and Huntington a 280 Remington.JOC reported there was not much difference between the three cartridges that he could see, and Eleanor killed 15 head of game with 17 shots or something like that. Being a 7mag fan this breaks my heart but things are what they are...and can't be ignored. Seems when Eleanor wanted a BIG GUN to use on tiger,lion,and elephant they had Len Brownell build her a 30/06 which she used on those animals as well,even killing a tiger before it took a bite out of a beater. Hate to break out the history books to illustrate there ain't much difference between these various cartridges but truth of the matter is that if you are shooting something between 270 and 30 caliber on a 57mm or 30/06 case there just isn't a whole lot of difference.Since we have had the benefit now of over 100 years empirical data to look at this should be pretty apparaent but the conversations continue unabated... BTW what the hell is a 308 Winchester 
Last edited by BobinNH; 05/15/13.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Exactly 0.024" plus the availability of heavier bullets in the 30 cal.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's a 30-06 Improved! Does everything today the old 30-06 did, in a more compact package!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It's a 30-06 Improved! Does everything today the old 30-06 did, in a more compact package! Yeah, especially with the new powders. But, it'll never compete with the '06 using heavy bullets...  Heavy bullets and slow powder belong to the '06. DF
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Campfire Tracker
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And the same can be said about the '06. Does everything a 300 mag did using new powders and heavy bullets. Run it at the same psi/cup and it's damn amazing what you'll get.
Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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These new powders have changed a lot of "rules".
DF
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