Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Time to ban Barry Bonds

I agree!! Well said! Hank Aaron went through the same BS in his day when he was getting close to Ruth's record. People(more white ) were hoping he would not break the record also. Maris recieved a lot of hate mail and boos because people ( more white) didn't want him to break Ruth's record or pass up Mantle. Alot of players are probably very different behind closed doors or off the field, but all of us have skeletons in the closet. As for Bonds, I'm for him to break the record as I think it will put some excitement in the game as the season progresses. I would bet there are many other players who have taken steroids that didn't hit many balls out of the park. Hopefully MLB will crack down and eliminate steroid usage. But, I don't think you can go back and begin taking records away from ballplayers .

I totally disagree. The problem with gambling is that you always have the potential for players, umpires, managers, etc. who are in trouble with it to agree to alter the outcome of games to erase their debts.

As far as Bonds goes, sure the guy is a world class jerk BUT there is no evidence that he broke a single rule of MLB. Performance enhancing drugs were not banned by MLB at the time he is accused of doing them. You can't accuse him of cheating if he was not breaking any rules. The rules have been changed and if he is caught now that is a different story. Bonds is no different than a large percentage of players of the same time frame. McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, Giambi, Canseco, etc. And no doubt MLB turned a blind eye to the situation because the big bombers were the draw that saved the game. It's easy to not like Barry Bonds as a person. In reality a lot of pro athletes fit that mold. But, as it stands now there is no evidence that he broke any rules. That is the difference between him and Pete Rose. Rose did break the rules.

Jeff

Bullwnkl;

The facts about Bonds came out in his own sworn testimony in the BALCO case. He was granted immunity from criminal prosecution and then sang like a bird on the stand, confessing to 'roiding up since '98, and like a fiend at it.

That's proof enough, IMHO.

Oh, and the BALCO case was a tax-matter originally, and his testimony was needed to show how much money BALCO was getting, and how much they weren't paying taxes on. Not an abuse of power, IMHO.

C'mon guys, a couple of you sound like the scandalized school marm's that found out one girl in the Senior High School Class of 682 kids might have had sex... say it ain't so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If I'm going watch a bunch of spoiled multi-millionaire's hit a ball I'd sooner it be at the polo grounds...

I certainly don't wanna "flame" anyone, BUTTTTTTTTT...

Comparatively, Pete Rose bet on the outcome of baseball games... a game and teams that were playing the game at the time about which he was VERY familiar. Rose NEVER bet AGAINST his own team... a fact that would have made him truly "dirty" since he (as the Cincinnati Red's team manager) had control of who played, when they played and for how long they played. As a result, Rose could have easily changed the outcome of any game in which his team was a participant.

However, Pete never... repeat... NEVER bet AGAINST his own team, nor did he "dope-up" on drugs or spit in an umpire's face, he just made bets... he didn't "do" drugs! And GAWD, how he's "paid" for doing it!

Rose was a truly great baseball player and had a real future in baseball as a manager and, perhaps, one day... even as a team owner. But all of that was taken away from him due to some "bets" on baseball (something most of us have also done) because it was against the "rules".

While I'm NOT a big baseball fan, I think the baseball commissioners have been especially rough on Rose, not only eliminating his ability have his place in Baseballs's Hall of Fame, but they've also continued to "punish" Pete Rose by not allowing him to earn a living in anything having to do with baseball... about the only thing Rose has ever "known".

This "punishment" has been a lot harder on Pete Rose than might be obvious to many of us since Rose doesn't seem like the "brightest-bulb-on-the-Christmas-Tree"... and, like many "jocks", Mr. Rose... outside of baseball... doesn't seem to have much knowledge or ability about anything else.

If I sound like a "Pete Rose" fan... let me clarify that right now. I once was, but when he stupidly screwed up, I got disgusted with him.

Living only 50 miles north of Cincinnati, I saw a lot of personal interviews on our local TV stations that were done with Pete Rose at the time concerning his departure from baseball and the betting he did... and, frankly, he didn't come across as being "Mr. Nice Guy" in those interviews, but... admittedly, he was really upset by what was happening to him even though it was his own fault! But being a "nice guy" isn't one of the "requirements"... or a reason to be permanently banned from a game, is it?

Yes, Pete Rose made a big mistake, but in all honesty, I don't believe he deserved to be banned from ANY connecton with baseball for the REST of his life!

Let's face it, the baseball records he set were set BEFORE he ever made a bet on baseball, so why shouldn't he be judged for placement in the Baseball Hall of Fame by his performance in baseball which occurred AFTER he retired as an active player and BEFORE he stupidly made bets on the game he loved so much?!?

To me, using performance-enhancing drugs to break long-standing records in ANY sport is a LOT worse than betting on the game, especially if the bet is NEVER against your own team!

It seems reasonable that ANY record(s) broken during the use of performance-enhancing drugs should not "stand", but be erased from the Record Books as if they never occurred because they resulted of the player in question (be it Bonds or any other player) using DRUGS to break the record.

Thus the performance that "broke" the record wasn't due to the individual's ABILITY, but rather ONLY to the use of DRUGS that enabled the individual's performance to be record-breaking!

This not only applies to Bonds, but to ANY player of ANY professional sport who breaks ANY record. That's ONLY fair to all of the rest of those players to play their hearts out in the sport.

I believe it's important to note that our society doesn't even allow race horses to be "doped", so why should sport's records made by drugged-up "jocks" be allowed to stand?

As for Hank Aaron being a "jerk"... I have to say he always came across as being a perfect gentleman in all the interviews he did that I saw, but I personally never had the opportunity to "know" Mr. Aaron...although I would have been "honored" to know him personally.

Jus' my 2�... other's opinions may differ. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

As a point of clarification. Pete Rose being banned from baseball for life wasn't just for betting on the game. He had the opportunity for reinstatement had he come clean and admitted he bet on games. His refusal to do so is what lead to the severity of the penalty.

One thing I want to clarify. I'm not supporting the use of performance enhancing drugs in any way shape or form. I'm glad that baseball finally got with the program and banned their use. The issue though is that any evidence that Bonds used them is from before the ban. They were not illegal in baseball. He didn't break any rules. You may not like what the rules at the time were, I don't disagree, but the fact is there is no evidence he violated any MLB rules.

Jeff

My Dad played in the Majors in the 40's and managed during the 50's and before he died in 2003 we used to talk about the steroid use. He said you can look at a players 1st base time and tell very easily as well as pitchers picking up velocity and being able to throw 20 more pitches with speed and control from the year before along with 20lbs or a guy who hits the ball farther and picked up muscle mass in a very short time!!!

We have used a blind eye looking at this for so long that even the high school where my daughter attends the use of the "juce" is rampant!!!!!

um,as far as ball players being cheaters yes they are.Mike Scott with the sandpaper/Joe Niekro with the fingernail file/Gaylord Perry with the Spitter so why shouldn't hitters use the juice? i have an acquaintance who is a recovering roid user i showed him a photo of Bonds in '92 and one from '03 his reply"he's on the stuff" good enough for me.MLB wants Bonds to have the HR record.now get ready for Sharpton/Jackson et al to protest"the unfair treatment" of Bonds.

The most remarkable things (other than Home runs) about Barry Bonds is the change in his approach at the plate. Early in his career he was threatening to break single season strikeout records, now he has more patience at the plate than any hitter I've ever seen. How many gold gloves did the guy win in left field, 10+?, I've heard him described by I think Tim McCarver as the best left fielder ever. When you add all of this up, undoubtledly the steroids helped the power numbers, but weren't against the rules of MLB at the time. If he had only hit 650 homeruns, we would be debating whether he was the greatest ball player ever. Don't forget he has spent huge chunks of his career basically alone in the batting order.
I don't care about steroids, he spent his whole career in the National league playing a position, imagine the numbers he would have put up steroids or no steroids in Yankee Stadium with that short right field fence. He played in Candlestick park for years, where the wind blew in off the ocean most of the time, one of the hardest place to hit in all of baseball.
Barry Bonds while being one of the biggest jerks to ever play(right up there with Pete Rose) is IMHO the best baseball player of the last 50 years. The only other guy close is his godfather Willie Mays.

+1

Yep, that's it. I dont like Bonds, but he is one of the greats, and you nailed it, He has spent the largest part of his career alone in the power spot, with not much help around him.
I was furious with the Giants for trading off Will Clark, and others I really liked, but Bond's performance has been exceptional.

"Some pills make you love her, and some pills make you small, and the one's that mother gives you, don't do anything at all, go ask Alice, when her and Barry are ten feet tall.....................

Bonds wouldn't sign baseballs last year for a teammates children charity saying"I ain't signing no balls for no white kids"....
The charity is for kids with cancer...He is a monster...
Bart

Agreed, he's an a..hole, but a great ball player

No doubt, he's a big one, we all know that.
I'm one of those that says to at least put an asterisk next to their records, afterall, look what they were will ing to do against poor ole Roger Maris when he broke Ruth's single season homerun record.

However, Pete never... repeat... NEVER bet AGAINST his own team,
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Betting on your team to win can also be a problem, suppose he he is in a tight game on Friday night, but has money on Saturdays game, so he holds a good reliever out of the game that is tight in order to keep him fresh for SAT?...or, use a reliever in a tight game, when the pitcher probablly should have had a day of rest.

I think Rose has suffered enough, and should have been allowed in the Hall, but because he didn't bet against his team doesn't mean it was trivial betting.

While I'm NOT a big baseball fan, I think the baseball commissioners have been especially rough on Rose,
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In every locker room, in every big leauge city it is posted "Do not bet on baseball, it means banishment for life..no exceptions"
Rose walked under that sign thousands of times.

Ron T.

In regards to hank Aaron. I grew up in Mesa AZ, a spring training home of the A's (back in those days). Twice I tried to get Aaron to sign a ball for me that he hit out of Rendevous park. Both times he MF'd as a stupid white kid. Maybe I was, but I was also impressionable. He was a jerk and not much of a gentleman, and a bigot to boot. Nope- I think he is an a$$hole.

I can't wait until Bonds breaks his record...

VAnimrod, no doubt you are correct as the record states that Bonds did use steroids before the BALCO case. However if Bonds was given immunity shouldn't that wipe his slate clean. Now I believe that new evidence proven to be factual not just allegations in a book would be required to take action against Bonds. so perhaps a Grand jury inquiry into doping in baseball and specifically Bonds would be in order? Or should we just go on the words of some guys who wrote a book. Have you read the book? Do they make a credible case? Should Bond be proven to have used steroids after the BALCO case he desirves to be banned from Base ball for life. Look at what pete Rose got for gambling ,this is just as bad if not worse. i would just like to see it get into court and force MLB into acting on all these druggies.

Bullwnkl.

OK, this is what they are saying on sport radio in SF.
When Bonds talked to investigators he said he didn't take steroids, but he did use the cream and the clear.

The two guys from BALCO took a deal so Bonds was never required to go to court.
The new book that is coming out among other things is all the evidence they found in the BALCO labs which show that Bonds took a lot more than he confessed to, and evidence that he was privey to a lot more than he let on.
The author was on KNBR today, and stated that basically the book puts out there all that would have come out during the BALCO trial if no plea had been reached.

A couple of local radio sports guys say that the book is the smoking gun on Bonds, that the authors really lay out the case and evidence.
In addition there is a lot of personal interviews with people around Bonds that do some personal damage

Sure people cheat in baseball, football, basketball, hockey, oh crap - every major sport. We know that and as we catch them they should be removed from the books. HOWEVER, I do think that it is important to realize there is ZERO evidence that a majority or players are using steroids. I would be willing to venture that less than 10% of major league players are using. While that number is still very high I will continue to take my son to Busch stadium this summer and will follow the games. I do not think the game is as corrupt as most would have you think. The new testing policies will still allow some to slip through the cracks but for most players this is still the chance of a lifetime and will not be willing to risk it.

It really sucks that a jacka$$ like Bonds has to place this negative persona on the game.

They lost me with the strike several years ago. I got better things to spend my money on than a bunch of spoiled, greedy millionaires.

So prove him guilty and boot his ass out of baseball forever or just let it go and allow any one who wants to to use steroids . Don't just sit there baseball do something.

Bullwnkl.