Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Handgun hunting... penetration or expansion?

Well John,I have owned big bore handguns since I was 16 years old.I actually thought you and I could discuss cast versus jacketed like gentlemen without insults,but it seems I was wrong...I own two today....

That's the way it goes sometimes on the net.

In answer to your question-.I did not agree with that statement but you did.The .338 Win Mag,if you can shoot it,has already proven itself time after time and there is not a need to shoot 36 anything with it to prove it once again...........

Jayco

You are trying to discredit, not discuss. I have shot a lot of game with a handgun in my life with both jacketed and hard cast I have found that I prefer hard cast

I'm not discrediting anything.Good for you and your handgun kills.I have shot a few also,probably not as many as you but I would bet money,JJ has shot more than you/me and whit all put together or close to it and he,like me,prefers jacketed.

Owe well,life goes on,doesn't it?

Just because I or anyone else does not agree with you does not mean your choice is wrong or our choice is wrong and most importantly....NOT A REASON TO INSULT ANYONE WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOUR THOUGHTS..................

I prefer not to throw back today.

Jayco

You haven't been insulted, you accused me and Whitworth of shoot specialty bullets not available to everyone which isn't true you discredited my experience and knowledge, yet you claim that you were insulted. Amazing

I know jwp's handgun hunting bonafides, what are yours? You're discrediting the performance of hardcast bullets and you cite the experiences of others. What are yours? This is a legit question and not a reason to throw insults at me.

My gawd..Can either of you go pee without the other holding it?

I did not discredit cast bullets..I said I own like 1,000 of them.I have shot game with them and with jacketed...I simply said I prefer jacketed over cast for immediate effect.....

Where in the hell did you get I discredited cast bullets?

I have been hunting with a big bore pistol since I was about 16 years old off and on but I prefer a rifle ........I reloaded a 44 Mag in the 60's with a Lee Loader and 2400...Big Bores are not new to me and I have my opinion as you two twins have yours........

I have not payed a single cent/penny to hunt anything or anywhere..Just local hunting for me.......If I had half the bucks some put out to hunt elsewhere,I would be rich.....

I hunt for food only,not bragging rights rifle or handgun and I am not a pistol luny just a pistol user and I have the right just like you to give my "opinion"..

You ain't getting my lunch money.....

Jayco

Can you read? I said you tried to discredit my experience and knowledge

Any pictures, any at all?

And can you talk about handgun hunting experience without citing JJ?

By the way, I don't want your lunch money. So what are your bonafides?

Is turdcutter talking about tarp hunting again?

GFY John........I have posted pictures before and I sure as hell ain't going to tackle the new photobucket 30 pages back on an Android phone.If I started now and didn't quit,I might have them in the morning....

How much have you paid to hunt in your lifetime?How much was the Alaskan hunt?

You and Whit follow each other around to several forums posting and gang bang anyone who does not agree and Whit is a moderator on AR..

Are JJ's postn cast versus jacketed just ignored because he would wype you both off the map with his experience?You two are [bleep] up....Anyone who disagree's gets the gang bang and Whit is a moderator on AR......Your a follower on 24hr.......

Man..If you can't talk logic and except others opinions that don't agree with you/Don't post....

And show me where I tried to discredit anything you posted,I simply had a different opinion.....

I'm done with this little John.....Carry on....

Jayco

I lived in Alaska for seven years and how much I paid or didn't pay to hunt is not relevant to bullet performance. You continue to bring JJ into your argument are you basing your position on JJ's experience? Which by the way is different from mine.

I see that you have resorted to vulgar insults to bolster your position. Bravo

Strange debating tactic you have there, Jayco. What in God's name does my moderator status on AR (or any of the other websites I moderate on for that matter) have to do with your handgun hunting experience? I have actually used both types of bullets in revolvers and in fact have used both this year. Can't form a credible opinion about one or the other without actually using them.

Excuse me...GFY is a 24hr motto okayed by our leader and mentor, Travis and he would never say anything that was vulgar,thank you.....

I'm still on probation(No search-No ignore-No Sig line-No ask the gunwriter etc) so I choose not to carry this discussion on anymore for fear of raising the dead..

Your right/I am wrong....Long live Little John and the AR moderater posting on 24hr.Your both right all the time about anything posted.

Jayco out.

No, we're not right all of the time, but you have taken a position without actually having performed the necessary testing. Again, what does my moderator status have to do with anything here???????? Please enlighten me.

I was referring to this

[img:left]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee243/clm1956/leadbullet_zps27ff9eb3.jpg?t=1371345263[/img]

OK, back to the subject at hand. Today I did a little bullet test on two bullets fired into a box filled with soaked magazines from a .44 mag. The jacketed bullet is a 240 grn Sierra JHC and the lead bullet is a 240 grn Oregon LaserCast. They should have both impacted at about 1250 fps.

The cast bullet penetrated better - 10" vs. 6.75" and didn't appear to expand much, if any, less. The Sierra bullet did mushroom but it didn't hold together as I found little pieces of copper in its trail.

But my question for you cast lead guys, is that deformation you see at the front of the LaserCast bullet OK? Do you expect to see the meplate of your bullets retain their sharp edges? I don't think Oregon publishes the BH of their bullets, but they claim that they're hard enough to hunt with.

???

For me it would depend upon what I'm hunting. Smaller,thin-skinned game I'll opt for expansion, because with any decent hunting cal. penetration should be adequate. For larger, possibly dangerous game,penetration is a must!!! Many large dangerous animals in Africa were (and still are) taken with solids. memtb

I agree completely.

McInnis,

What was your load for that 240 JHC?

Thanks for the pics

DR

Many do not realize that a hard cast nose can and will deform. How much? that depends on several factors 1- bullet alloy and hardness, 2- the density of the target. Thoroughly soaked news print with a hard cast of 22 to 24 Brinell at 1400 FPS or less I do not see much if any change in the nose. If the media is merely wet but not soaked then some degradation will occur. A so called "hard cast" at least 1200 FPS or more muzzle velocity with a brinell of 12 to 14 will expand. If a hard cast is harder than the 22 to 24 brinel then it runs the risk of being too brittle and will break up.

ON game the size of buffalo, moose,etc if a 22 to 24 brinel goes through heavy bone then the nose will definable degrade. At 1575 FPS a 22 to 24 brinell hard cast in thoroughly soaked news print will compress thus getting shorter and wider. with the nose and meplat remaining sharp


I do not recommend driving hard cast bullet over 1400 FPS for best performance on larger game. On deer the destruction of the bullet will aid in the wound channel and the penetration will still be enough.

In over 40 years of taking game with a handgun I have found for me the best over all over the widest range of conditions is a wide me plat with proper nose profile works very well on all size game and is my go to load. I do still shoot a lot of jacketed bullets, but have little faith in the majority for use on all size of game. The Horandy XTP mag version is the best jacketed for really large game IMHO and experience.

THe 240 JHC Sierra has a 1 1/2 percent antimony core and a stiff jacket and is a good hunting bullet as well IMHO. Hard Cast means different things to different people to me it means a bullet for a hand gun with a brinel of 22 to 24. less than that it is not a hard cast. Some people consider 12 to 14 to be a hard cast.

I hope this helps