Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .243 vs 25-06

WSM & Geedubya,

Couldn't agree more with either of your sentiments !!

I'm happy with all of my rifles @ MOD (minute of deer).

Time at the range is necessary & used to be enjoyable to me.

Now, in my mind, it is necessary, for trigger time & great for R&D, but I've gone from striving for the tinyist groups, to ensuring I can be confident in where my cold bore shot is going to end up.

Since adopting this philosophy, I now enjoy hunting more than shooting.

YMMV.

Paul.

SLM,

I've always configured my bodies not to shoot,less a card and keep lotsa cards handy(in the event one pukes,which has yet to happen). My favorite body(1D3) takes (2) cards and can be configured in a number of ways,to shoot to either/or and both,even in different file sizes(RAW to one,JPEG the other,etc.).

My favorite videocamera has 64MB internal and (2) card slots to boot and memory is cheap...especially when one is literally makin' Memories. Am glad I've long had a keen appreciation,for such things.

Look to bump into a Polar Bear here along The Milford,in the next week or so(those this evening would be nice) and given the weather,the stage is set.

Will be workin' on Blurtitude,though it is frustratin'.











dube',

There ain't a day goes by,that folks ain't tellin' me to sell images and I've been forced to listen to The Pitch for over 25yrs now. I shoot for my enjoyment and such things is Priceless.

I'm lucky,in that I've never knowed Greed and the forecast indicates...that I never will.

If it weren't fun,I simply wouldn't do it. Suplizing how many people miss that boat.

Now as to batteries,again the 1D-Series('3 on) shine brightly. Depending upon how I [bleep],I can nab 3000 pokes easily on a single battery(OEM Canon and 3rd Party Lenmar both). That with AF pinned and in AI Servo.

Food for thought,if only because noone has ever said: "I have too many good pictures".

Hint.(grin)









'Cub,

Use your Imagination and Pretend that there are no women in your "heralded" Union. Laffin'!

A Union has never made a good man and never will...but they routinely crank out pieces of absolute schit. That is hardly a "secret",despite your Pretend. Re-laffin'!

Your incredible Dumbphucktitude,is never not impressive in it's inherent hilarity.

Bless your heart.




















Brinky,
You say that you don't have a 243AI,like that fact ain't very well known. No [bleep] schit dumbphuck and that just might be the [bleep] point. Laffin'!

In fairness you cited: "MojoHand; Kick ass pics. A 243AI or non would be plenty enough for what you're looking to shoot.". I know...I know,your Imagination took over and you were flying your Pretend yet again. Someone who "does" as "much" as you,would be WELL served to shut the [bleep] up and ask questions,instead of giving "answers". Just sayin'. Laffin'!

Very much enjoyed your OEM Spout Treatise...that was "riveting" too and points awarded for Varget. Laffin'! The only thing missing,was a muse on optics,velocities and come-ups. Google it. Re-laffin'!

No need to flaunt your Masters in Dumbphucktitude...everyone long ago got it.

Wow +P+!










WSM,

You poor stupid [bleep]...it's "Hogue". Wow!

Would love to see some pics of the cross-eyed Droolin' Dumbphucks you run with,if you are Top Tier. Laffin'!

Is there no end to you stupid [bleep] Imaginations?!? You clueless [bleep] dolts are on FIRE!

Just [bleep] WOW.










Shefire,

What did you almost do lately? What were you gonna almost do it with? Where were you gonna almost do it?

Happy Imagination to you.

Laffin'!











Gee',

As much as you like fences and Tame Critters,tell the boys how you looked to hire only Union help.

Laffin'!










DD,

I reckon a beeger case,flingin' a higher BC boolit at faster impact speeds...should oughtta have an advantage downrange.(grin)

Have thought of a 22-250AI or a 243AI,but hear both is overbore and wouldn't wanna suffer sucha plight.(grin)

After reading another Thread here,I'm gonna try one of them 223AI's some day,if only to see WTF. Either that or have The Do Nothing Gang go ahead and Pretend to Imagine one up,so as to have some solid feedback in the last hand. Laffin'!

BEST Thread Evah.










'2 99's,

I hear through the grapevine,that a guy can have his cake and eat it too. Fact is,I hear that one can field light done right,in a ruggedly reliable parcel,that'll exhibit longterm static POA/POI intersections,as per whim. In conjunction with same,CBS "weirdness" is easily nipped and so goes the mandate of having to poke sumptin' other than boolits through the bore.

One can Field fickle wares,if inclined...but noone is less inclineder than I,to suffer such concession(s).

Spent Primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial.

Hint.







(Addendum: For poor/[bleep] stupid WSM)

$400 clams will score a 700 New(Mart Mart typical $379 Sale) or Used. I've yet to see one shoot over MOA and in case your pointy head is wondering...I've been around more than a [bleep] few. That'd be gross understatement. Hint-[bleep]-hint.

So let me get this "correct",as per your Imagination and Pretend...in the circles which you run in,a Mouser with a "custom chambered" A&B spout,poked in a Hogue and tripped with a Timney,leads the [bleep] pack?!!? Now THAT is [bleep] hilarious! Just what might this marvel be wearing for base/rings/glass and what do you feed it? Laffin'!

It remains a cryin' shame,that you are incapable of mustering the 17 IQ points requisite,to cypher what a totally [bleep] clueless boob you are. I enjoy your Imagination,[bleep] nearly as much as you do.

Where do you incredibly stupid dumbphucks come from?!!?

Wow!

Boxer I think you miss the point. My $400 rifle built on a K98 action and stocked with a Cheap Hogue stock shoots SUB MOA! I have about $400 in it minus the glass. K98 action, A&B barrel, Timney Trigger and the Hogue stock. Borrowed a reamer from a friend. Another friend with the other tools let me use his shop to fit it all together. Had a good time putting it together and swapping stories and still have a rifle that will outshoot Guns costing much more. Only thing it don't have is some stoopid name like Montucky, Rocktucky, Samtucky or whatever else you are calling your rifles today.

If it shoots, nothing much wrong with spending little money on great results? Did that almost 30 years ago with an FN "M98" action, an inexpensive barrel, a Timney trigger and other mods.

It ain't purty, but for how it works on the bidness end and that was all that mattered to me. The rifle still puts 5 well inside of an inch @ 100 yards and has thumped deer well beyond 400 yards.

Unfortunately, cheap doesn't always produce the desired results and I don't often recommend that approach.

Bigger, Faster works most days. My limited brain function says the .22-250 AI (tightly wrapped) might be an interesting path to walk, but I just can't figger the .243 version. Maybe I'm missing the point how much improving can be accomplished with that case? Might be too that some of the Whizzums and similar ilk could work well if one tilts toward ticklin' the dragon's tail.

May be that "overbore" is a context thing, even more, an urban legend of sorts. Keep thinking to myself as the years pass, "Wow, they can't make a powder that burns slower than that!" Keep telling myself that; they keep telling me to GFM.

Oh well.....

Very true and I will tell you I did not expect what I got from this rifle. I was looking for a bad weather rifle and would have been happy with an inch and a half gun. Just wanted consistent and predictable unlike the 8mm mauser it started out as. The bolt had already been turned down nicely and it had the Timney trigger. Had $150 in that I believe. Bought it some time ago for my Dad. He likes those old chopped up mil surps. Dad wanted a .308 and I wanted a bad weather gun so this is it. He quit hunting so I just kept it. Figured if he ever decided to stand post again it is here for him. Will put 5, 140 grain Barnes original X bullets or Nosler 150 grain BT's under and inch. More than good enough for the cross the valley hunting here. To date have shot one doe at 250 yards with the Barnes bullet. DRT what more can you ask for?

Figure it's only a matter of time before someone whips up a powder that's so slow, it'll only be useful for long range matches and have little utility for hunting applications?

You might could hold a bench rifle still long enough for the powder to burn, but a minute or two on moving game, not so much.



I can recall when H870 was the go-to for large capacity thumpers and guys fell all over themselves trying to find one more jug of it. Then there was a fuss over IMR 7828 and so on over the years. No longer hang around any 1000 yard bench resters (all I knew have passed on), no idea what the latest rage is in that department?

When my econo-thumper was still fairly new yet, had it out at the range one day when a youngster showed up with his own new 25-06 custom.

Same action as mine, but with a Douglass(?) slim taper pencil barrel, all finished in a high luster blue-black. Mighty fancy walnut sporter stock and a Leupie of some sort atop it.

It was bore sighted, so he was anxious to get it on paper and dialed in. Asked him what he'd loaded for it and IIRC, his daddy had loaded him up a mess of Nosler Partions, which I think were either 115 or 117 gr at that time? And some 120gr spitzer bullets as well.

He was of the opinion that the 100gr Sierras I was shooting at the time (pre Btip days), were too light for deer. Told him I'd already killed several deer with my rifle and a 100gr bullet, some at 400 yards, but he dismissed my offering.

Then I told him his rifle was mighty pretty, unlike my old club which at that point still had the whittled down military stock on it. He agreed that my rifle was pretty damn fugly.

Has had a laminated varminter stock on it for many years since, looks only slightly purtier now. ;O)

We went down the 100 yard range together. Me to retrieve my targets, he to hang his.

I had managed to put three into one ragged hole on a coupla 1" target dots, from a bipod and rear bag on the bench. That caught his eye, so I told him he had a pretty rifle that looked far better than mine. But my rifle's beauty was all down range and wished him well with his new rifle.

B,
Perhaps you are aware that Texas is a right to work state. That�s the way it has been since I was born. A bunch of the guys I graduated high school with went into the Houston Police Department and the Houston Fire Department. They have unions. When I worked in the chemical plants on the Houston Ship channel as a laborer, pipefitters� helper, welder�s helper and later as a scaffold-builder, it was for non-union contractors. I worked shut-downs. My shop was an open shop. First two years I worked 7 days a week, usually from 6AM till 8PM. I paid myself $750 per month salary, which was the same salary my two brothers that worked with me drew. I did not pay union scale. When we first got started I had one guy I paid cash. I�d start guys at $5.00 per hour. However what I did do was make sure they got paid every Friday whether I did or not. Later on when things got better I paid more. Depending on what the job was and the skill level required determined the pay. However I paid time and � overtime after 40 hours to my employees. They also had perks for an extra good job or as a morale booster. We established a �house account� at a couple of nice restaurants in the area. Pasadena was �dry� at that time. If you were a �club� member you could get �liquor by the drink�. Otherwise is was beer and set-ups and you had to byob. I would let guys take the company truck home, let them take their wives and families to dinner, or fill up their tank with gas on the company. Stuff like that goes a long way to show folks that you appreciate their efforts and its non-taxible. If we made good money on a job and there were no screw-ups and deliveries were met we gave bonuses. I was loyal to my people and they were loyal to me. I�d tell them that they would not get rich working for me, but there would always be a place to sleep and beans on the table. I told all my guys that I wanted the best for them and their families and if they could find a better job, I expected for them to take it. I told them to have the prospective employer call me and I�d put in a good word for them.
As an aside, one of my earlier jobs was working for Cary-Way Portable buildings in the mid-sixties. A friend of mine�s dad invented the �sandwich� panel and built portable buildings for construction jobsites and offshore platforms. I�d hired on as a laborer for $1.25 an hour. IIRC it was the summer I was 15. As is the case it was terrible hot that summer. I was in a portable building hanging/installing fiberglass insulation. I�d tack it with a stapler. As I�m 5-8� I�d stand on the stool to tack the top and then squat on the stool to do the low part. I�ve always been one go 110 percent. I was doing the man the best job I could. Well It was close to noon and the job superintendent came through the unit. He saw me step up on the stool and tack the top then squat on the stool to get down low. He walks over and kicks the stool out from under me and starts cussing me saying that nobody that worked for him sat down on the job. I quit on the spot. I swore to myself if I ever was in the position to hire folks, that I was going to allow them to work to their own ability and if they had a better way of doing something, I�d listen.
Early on I learned determine what a person�s aptitude and capabilities were. It has been my experience that if you treat folks with respect, explain what you expect from them, provide them the tools to do a job and the opportunity to rise or fall on their own merit, folks will many time exceed your expectations. If you give credit where credit is due and reward and acknowledge a job well done, folk appreciate that. Over the last 30 years I�ve had numerous former employees that have gone on to successful careers come back and tell me that working �with� me was the best job they ever had. That in itself is a great reward at my stage of the game.
Now as to Union hands. I�m not going to get into politics, but here are a couple stories.
During the late 70�s and early to mid-80�s the South Texas Nuclear Project was ongoing in Bay City Texas, about 75 miles from Pasadena, Texas where I lived and had my shop. I was a member of the First Baptist church there. A number of the men in my young married Sunday -school class were Union hands. Electricians, millwrights, boilermakers and pipe fitters. We had a pretty tight group of couples. All our wives got pregnant about the same time. We�d get together after church on Sunday morning and evening and the wives would play �Bunco� during the week. Some of the guys and I were into long distance bicycling about this time. Anyhow, when they would get laid off, I made sure that they had a place at my shop to make some extra cash to tide them over till their next job. Because they were craftsmen, and not jake-legs off the street and my friends, I paid them a couple dollars more per hour than normal. Prolly not union scale, but they could not work their craft. However they were top hands and I was darn glad to have them assist me. I believe in training, apprenticeship, education and being a craftsman. I was out of the business since 1987. I've had no employees but me since that date.

One more,
My fourth brother Ken had the basic �mesomorph� body. He could look at weights and get a �pump�. By time he was 21 he had the body of a young Arnold S. and the smile, good looks, white teeth and mustache of a young Tom Selleck. He met a young lady that looked as good as Ann Margret on her best day. She was a �Stew� for Continental airlines back during the day, and she was hot. The body of Barbie and the red hair and face the here-to-fore mentioned Ann Margaret. About this time we were making money pretty good. I used to get the biggest kick out of watching �Bo� and �Sandy� cruising around in his convertible Mercedes 450 SLC �company car�. They looked like Ken and Barbie come to life. Now mind you Sandy was the prize daughter of a rough and tumble family of Irish Catholics. To boot they were all union hands and Yellow Dog Democrats (a term in the south that expresses the fact that they would vote for a yellow dog before they would vote for a republican) Pappa (Sandy�s dad) told the story of when he met his wife His middle initial was �O�, so although his name was not �O�Halian, but Dan O. Halihan the folks were happy because their daughter was marrying a good Irish boy.
My brother Ken whom they call �Bo� ( he got that nickname the summer he was 16. He was working outside in the heat. By noon he�d be stripped down to the waist and would loop a piece of rope though his belt loops to keep is pants up. The Beverly Hillbillies was big about that time. The guys on the job got to calling him �Jethro Bodine�, which later became shortened to �Bo�). Funny, my side of the family calls him Ken. Sandy�s whole family calls him �Bo�.
Well Bo and Sandy end up getting married. As I mentioned before, Bo�s wife�s family is an Irish, Catholic, Democrat, Union family with in-laws, out-laws and all kinds of relations. Pappa as I�ll call him here had his first son at 15. Pappa�s first son had his first son at 16. So Pappa is a grandpa relatively young. Now Bo comes from a family who�s father is a rounder, but the family matriarch is a by the book hard shell southern Baptist and Bo, being the son he is , turns out to be not only religious, but conservative also. This really rankles the first son of Papa, who I�ll call Rich.

Pappa, the first son Rich, and his son (who is now in his twenties), several cousins and friends, all who are union hands and democrats are on a hill country hunting lease together. Pappa tells Rich that they are gonna have to put Bo on the lease, cause Pappa �ain�t gonna have no grandson of mine grow up not hunting�. Rich tries every way he can to persuade Pappa no. He tells papa, that Bo� don�t do manual labor, all he is interested in is making money and we�ll have to put him up a stand, skin his deer, and not only is he a Baptist, but he�s also a republican. However Pappa is adamant.
So this is 1999. I did not know Rich from Adam at this point. One day I get a call and the fellow on the other end of the line says, Geedub, this is Rich, Bo�s brother-in law. I return the greeting and after a little I ask what�s going on. He proceeds to tell me the story of how he�s gotta get Bo on the lease. I agree with him that yes, my brother does not hunt, loves to make money, Has no gun, couldn�t skin a deer if his life depended on it and would not carry his own water. So Rich has a proposition for me. However, he prefaces it with this caveat. Geedub, we know that you�re a conservative and religious, and we want you to know right up front that we don�t like you, but we also know that you hunt, skin deer, and don�t mind work. So if you�ll look out and take responsibility for your lazy azz brother we�d like to invite you on our deer lease. I told them I could hold up my end. Bo hunted with them one year. This will be my fourteenth year hunting with this group of die hard union hands that live like one percenters but vote democrat. I love them like brothers. In fact we have made a pact between us in regards to our funerals.
It goes like this:
For the first ten years anywhere up to 11 of us slept a one room line shack or a trailer. We�d go to sleep at night, and I mean every night for that 10 years to the the musical score of John Wayne�s �The Alamo�. Almost never got past �must be parson and the boy�, �Think so�. LoL. We have a deer camp ritual. When the �Mexican Whistles� you take your shot of tequila. Don�t matter what time of day or night, whether you�re passed out sleep or drunk, you get up and take your shot. The camp motto is �it ain�t easy being macho� So we have all pledged at each of our funerals, whoever remains will play the theme song to �Villa Rides�, AKA the �Whistling Mexican, take a tequila shot and throw the shot glasses in the hole as a toast.
So B, This will be my fourteenth season hunting with my union brothers. In fact, usually on opening weekend, when Rich and I are the only ones left standing, I remind him of our original conversation. We�ll give each other a hug,(and I�m not big on hugging men) and Rich will say. Geedub, you�re one of the most liberal minded conservatives I know.

Best,

GWB

geedubya,great story. You and I left home about the same time and age.. But I didn't surf.. Women were very important as were guns..great story..

Someday you and me are gonna have to kill a bottle of Don Julio fireside.

My stories are more mundane, almost boring most of them, but I can fart with the best.

being a charter member of the Meadow Creek Blue Flame Society, I'll bring my Zippo. and some cigars.

Best

GWB

You apparently missed the point numb nuts per usual. If a SAAMI 243 can run that weight with ease going to a custom AI tube or anything more is not needed. Maybe wanted. Pay attention [bleep] face. Must be rattling around an empty bottle again. Hows your Adderall holding out? Getting short? pun intended. Oh, and GFY per usual. Sitting in anticipation to your next quest toward stupidity.

I always say architects are engineering dropout/failures. We deal with several that are a real pain in the ass...

I've always maintained that ANY and ALL potential engineers and architects should have to spend minimum 1 or 2 years actually in the field doing the manual end of the job...

Would cure a lot of ills, I believe.

Huh? ... You're delusional, cuz I didn't say that. Tall on imagination, short on EVERYTHING else. Try again.

Laffin'

That's what he does. Makes chit up, claims it the gospel and bitches about you saying it. Typical signs of a delusional drunkard. I can only wait to see what line of crap he claims as true tomorrow. Ought to be real interesting being that he has 24hrs to imagine it in his own little world of pretend up there in almost Alaska.

I want to be at that fire.

Try to stay upwind. Especially if a Zippo comes out.

That was the plan.

Good thinking.

Poor guy can't see over the dash.

Laffin'