Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns "Heavy" 10mm loads in Glocks

Kevin,

Yes, I am talking about either a custom 1911 or one of the 1911's that come from momma with a fully ramped barrel like my RIA does.

BTW, that RIA shot 16 rounds into 1 5/8 inch at 25 yards the other day. I am quite impressed with that pistol, expecially at its pricepoint.

GREAT to see you posting and opining here again, my friend!

RIA? Do Tell us not in the 1911 know. Thanks.

Chamber dimensions and headspace are the only factors in case support. Whether the barrel has a feed ramp or not doesn't matter.

Well, most ramped barrels offer greater case support over a non-ramped barrel. This is because the chamber goes back a tad further. If you were to take the same reamer and cut a chamber the same depth, the ramped barrel would offer a touch more case support.

Then I'm surprised Glock has such problems.

I have non ramped barrels in my 1911's that support the case back to the web of the case. I agree with JOG they support the same unless someone did a poor job on the tapering the bottom of the barrel which happens

Clarkm has measured case support about a dozen times on this board. And I think Clarkm has pretty much done the heavy-lifting on what brass will handle if supported properly.

Anyways, the witness is one of the few ramped barrel designs available (I think Wilson is the other) to the average Joe, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone post some case support measurements. The Witness certainly is at a good price point.

I posted some photos of the test target I shot with my new Rock Island Armory Tactical 10 1911 pistol a couple of weeks ago. Not only did it shoot 16 rounds into 1 5/8 inch, but 12 of the 16 were inside of one inch. The four that were outside of the 1 inch group could easily have been operator error as my eyes are not what they used to be.

On top of that, my Tactical 10 has a fully ramped barrel and supports the case exceptionally well. I have fired a good number of my rather hot 10mm handloads pushing 180gr Gold dots at 1375 and as a torture test I fired some handloaded 10mm ammo I bought at a gun show (learned my lesson, NO MORE gun show handloads!) that blew out their web areas in my Colt Delta Elite and destroyed a set of Rosewood grips. The RIA ate 'em up and spit 'em out without a hitch.

It really bummed me out to have to sell my much customized and upgraded Delta Elite to pay bills, but this RIA that I bought as a replacement with only 1/3 of the money I got for the DE has eased my pain and grieving considerably. It is a quite fine daily carry and all around pistol, IMO and IME so far.

The deciding factor is the angle at which the ramp is cut. Ramped 1911 barrels have a steeper angle on the ramp than a Glock, so they intrude less into the chamber area.

So when you really get down to it, it is the angle of the ramp, and how far it intrudes into the chamber. Vary that angle on identical chambers and you have varying degrees of case head support.

They have a sharper angle of feed ramp that intrudes deeper into the chamber.

Here is proof that the ramped and the un-ramped barrels have the same amount of case support

Double Tap sent me a box of their ammo loaded with 200gr Nosler JHP that are labeled to produce 1250fps, and a box of 200gr Hard-cast lead marked 1300fps. I will be test-firing some of these soon, using the 6" Glock barrel. McNett says he has no problems with Lone Wolf barrels, Sundles from Buffalo Bore, recommends staying with Glock barrels in Glocks. Both tell me their ammo should shoot in my pistol with no problems. We'll see.

That's proof of one makers barre in one model of gun. I was making generalizations, but they were pointed primarily at the 1911, not the Glock.

Again the execution of the work is more important than whether or not the barrel is ramped or not. I don't have, need nor want a ramped barrel

I wasn�t disputing that. I was disputing that it was a matter of chamber dimensions and headspace. It�s a matter of the design of the feed ramp, and how much it intrudes into the chamber area.

I think it would be great if we could get some manufacturers of 10mm pistols/ammo in on this discussion. These problems don't see to come up with .45ACP or other lower pressure loads. The 10mm seems to be a great loading, but some aspects might need to be addressed?

Really the only thing that needs to be addressed is the desire of some folks to make it a .41 magnum. BTDT myself, but I've learned better. If you stick with SAAMI factory loads and reputable hand loads you can exceed the .357 magnum by a significant margin and ramped/unramped or supported/unsupported won't matter a bit.

The 10mm was never intended to be fired out of a 1911. In the original loadings, the cartridge was just too hot for the design. Not only is the lack of case support on the 1911 an issue for the high pressure loads, but the platform itself is inadequate for the full power cartridge. Frames and slides will crack if one shoots a lot of full power loads out of a 10mm 1911. Fortunately, few can afford to put thousands upon thousands of rounds of full power 10mm through their pistols. And for those who can afford such adventures, they can afford to replace the guns they were out from time to time.

The original Colt�s design for the 10mm 1911 was what eventually became the Peter�s Stahl conversion after it was rejected by Colt�s. The Peter�s Stahl conversion added a very heavy, very beefed up slide to soak up the recoil, and a ramped barrel with much improved case head support. Colt�s didn�t like it because it didn�t look like a 1911, so they took the easy way out and just went with a dual spring system on an otherwise rather standard 1911. While this worked, the safety margins were greatly reduced, and the pistols couldn�t take a lifetime of full power loads. However, the 10mm Delta Elite did make for a lighter weight, much more convenient package than the other 10mm�s that were out there. So convenience and expedience won out, and the 10mm�s we see today are the same compromise, but with the added advantage that most 10mm ammo is reduced in power from the original Norma loads of the 1980�s. So the whole thing ends up working out rather well.

Kevin,

Well stated as is so often the case. I really liked my DE and like my RIA 1911 in 10mm also very well, but I am under no delusion that it or the DE if I had kept it would have stood up to several thousands of full power rounds fired. I am like the more typical buyer/owner you mention who just does not have the resources to fire enough 10mm ammo to break my gun anytime soon. As well, the bulk 10mm practice ammo that I buy and reload acts more like plus P 40 Short and Weak ammo. The gun should last a good long time with 180''s at about 1150fps for its regular diet, and that ain't a load to sneeze at, anyways.

Bought a Glock 20 Gen 4 SF, Looked hard and could find no ammo here in AK. Found 1 box of Buffalo Bore 230 Gr cast in Seward AK, had to reload some 180 gr HP. Like the Glock its my first after many 1911 style 45,s.
Was able to buy 4 boxes of 10 MM 180 gr Rem MC FP in Oregon brought them home on the plane. Reasonably accurate and functions fine.

Shot 5 rounds of the expensive BB 230 gr. after cleaning barrel, with a 22# spring. Function was great and hit a rock at 50 yards. No case smile marks, but will not reload those cases.

From what I read the BB cast ammo was tested in a stock Glock barrel, and they recommended the 22# spring and steel guide rod and removing any lead before shooting jacketed bullets.