Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Your thoughts on the MK12 SPR ?

I was doing some research on it and the whole idea has started to grip my mind. With proper twist, ammo and optic it really truly does extend the authority of the AR to 500 yards and perhaps more.

Anybody here deploy active duty with one in the sand box or know anybody that did? Where and how were they more effective?

As I understand it the unique aspect is the 18" 1/7twist, 77grain smk's and a good variable optic up to 10x.

Anybody doing the 3gun thing with a MK12/SPR style set up?

My only experience is with a 16" and xm193.

My only thoughts are that if you cannot keep the weight down might as well go 308, and also; how are the fellows retaining the ability to do close quarters with the MK12?

I think the SPR as a whole was abandoned by those that wanted it. They figured a 16" precision gun saved weight and accomplished the same thing.

I have a Noveske SPR and a Noveske 16" light weight built as a Rogue hunter. The 16" weighs a pound less, gives up about 50fps and is just as accurate.

I've currently got a heavy 18" barrel for competition, mainly for a smoother recoil impulse and it works fine for what I need. IME in competition an 18" barrel really doesn't give up anything to the shorter barrels on close and fast targets. Actual use in a vehicle and indoors a shorter barrel wins though, IME.

I've seen a guy regularly hit torso sized steel at 400 yards, offhand, with a 16" barrel. So I'm not convinced that an 18" is needed to make an AR useful at 500.

Tom, a 1-7 twisted 16 inch pencil barrel from DD and Colt on my two carbines shoots the 75 grain Swift bullets over 23 grains of TAC really good. The heavy bullets are very good against 150-200 pound game animals. Shooting 500 yards I don't see much, I hunt in Northeast GA and the deer ranges are close to you 99% of the time.

I've never built a MK12 replica but the 18" SPR contour when fluted makes a very nice setup. Excellent ballance and still very light. I've owned a couple SPR's that weren't fluted and didn't really like them as well.

Terry

The main problem that I cannot solve in my mind is:

If you go full tilt with a 3.5x10 scope what is the best option sight/redot/irons for close in?

The main reason I have guns setup for different purposes. My SPR complete with a 3.5-10 MK-4 is best at medium to longish range.

My 16" RECCEish gun has a VX-6 1-6 on it. Good enough for close range and good enough for medium range. Though it has the Fire dot reticle that makes it faster than most up close, the reticle is a little too thick for extreme accuracy out far.

My close up house gun is a 16" Colt light weight and wears an Aimpoint Micro red dot on it. Nothing is faster up close but it sucks with small targets past 100 yards.

Given one gun to do all, I'd take the RECCEish gun with the 1-6.

Do you use a compensator on the SPR?

At first I laughed at the idea of using one on an AR but after thinking about it I can see the wisdom of it when you are trying to call your own shots without a spotter... I assume they all but eliminate recoil.

There are 3 million options these days for comps.

A friend swears by the new comp/hider that Bravo Company came out with. It has A2 ext dimension so that any can that locks on those will work.

TAK, do you know how the BCM comp compares to anything else, specifically the battlecomp? I had trouble on a 16" Middy with the BC overcomping and creating muzzle dip. I wondered if the BCM or Griffin might be a better option.

Issued MK12 MOD1





The SPR has probably accounted for more direct kills in Iraq and Afghanistan than all other individual weapons combined. It was an awesome rifle, but I and those I know realized that we could do the same things with 16in Recce's setup similarly. That has evolved in realizing that a 14.5in free-floated M4 with a 1-6x, 1-8x, or a 2.5-10x (or similer) with offset red dot and good ammo will take the M4 and 5.56mm to its practical limit.

Got any pictures and sources and specs on the offset red-dot set up?

Thanks...

Cool picture

There has been a bunch of different setups. Mostly using 45 degree mounts off the right side of the receiver. The best probably being an AimPoint Micro and Larue combo.



I'll try to get some pics up later....

MARSOC is running the Aimpoint Micros on Daniel Defense offset "one-o'clock" mounts IIRC. They like it with their ACOG's.

SPRs are fantastic, and the MK12 was sweet and relatively advanced for its time -- but as it sits, obsolete. Regardless, I'd love to put together an 18" AR with a Bushnell Elite 3200 up top, and an offset RMR. If you can ruck the weight, it'd do just about everything.

I've put together a bunch of SPRs and SPR uppers for individuals, as well as run them at various ranges and time constraints.

They are truly an excellent platform, and if I was in a static position such as on an embassy detail, where I knew I was going to be doing mostly roof top shots, I would take it in a heartbeat.

That being said, said for an all around weapon, I find that a 16" gun with match grade tube, free floated barrel/handguard setup and a proper trigger such as a Geissele Dynamic to ideal.

Top it off with a low powered variable such a 1.5-5 or 2.5-8 Leupold, or a Nightforce 2.5-10x24 and call it good.

All I know about the battle comp is what others have said. A friend replaces an A2 comp on his 11.5in gun and said his shot-to-shot splits got a lot faster. Hope that helps. The BCM is a little over half the price of the Battle Comp and it looks like about half as long, if that matters to you.

I was at the range the other day with some competition shooters and played with several comps and it was an excellent place to learn. I heard the comment about overgassed comps that will dip the muzzle and some liked it because they are counting on shooting from a bipod or hard rest that made no difference. I tried a battle comp, spikes, griffith(not sure which one it was, lots of little holes), Troy claymore, PSA pigsticker, JP tank and the Kaw valley.

I think they all did a pretty good job of cutting the recoil and noticed a big difference in shooter comfort. Behind some of them I could not shut off my blink reflex and cannot imagine deploying one in a confined se. I think my favorite was the kaw valley, not the greatest on recoil reduction but I really like the way it pushes everything out front and makes it quieter for the shooter.

I ran a Gill brake/compensator once on an AR. It did what it said it would do but also like every other one I've ever run, it was loud as hell.

Fine for a rifle that you will always use hearing protection with but for one you that you may take hunting etc. I would pass.

I have one I put together with a Compass Lake/MSTN barrel years ago that has been my favorite AR ever since. I have never found the SPR contour barrel to be heavy at all. That rifle shoots like crazy but has recently been replaced as my favorite by a 16" match-barrel-equipped rifle that fits what most are calling the "Recce" description. Mine wears an Apex tubular handguard that's my current favorite and shoots tiny groups with 75-77gr match ammo and shoots 1 MOA with ball ammo.

If I think I'll need to go beyond 400yards or so, I'll grab my 16" .308 AR.

That sounds pretty reasonable from what I have seen. We took Kelly (our engineering intern) and Matt (Production Supervisor) to the range last week. Kelly�s 400yd group (3 shot) is on the right side of the dot and Matt�s is on the left.



If we give the 18 incher a 50fps advantage at the muzzle it only keeps a 40fps advantage at 500yds (in my thin air). 10 MPH wind drift advantage is less than � MOA.

I also prefer the 16 inch length for the all around AR. It does everything really well.

Which buffer is best for an 18" set up?

I am seriously thinking of getting two battle comps. I think the documentary videos on the various websites are convincing. They are saying the noise ain't so bad as compared to others. Did you get any feedback from your friend on the BCM comp????

H Buffers work well for me. Thats all I use other than one ST-T2 buffer A rifle gas 18" barrel runs smooth with a carbine buffer though.

I just got my 16" setup like I wanetd it. Its exactly the same as my 18", just 2" shorter and with a 1-6.5 optic vs. the NF 2.5-10X42 on the 18". I guess I will see which one gets used more and one may go up for sale.


AR-15 16" Rainier Arms Match by wareagle700, on Flickr

Cool picture!

What is the mount for the scope???

Noveske barrel???

Thanks. Its a ADM Recon mount and the barrel is a Rainier Arms Match barrel.

Pic of my 18" for good measure:


AR-15 18" Noveske SPR HDR by wareagle700, on Flickr

RW, don't buy two until you try one. Some folks just don't like them. They can cause muzzle dip on some guns and some guys decide it's too much for them.

And they're loud. The reviews that call them quiet are comparing them to a real brake, which they are quieter than that, but they're not quiet.

And get at least an H buffer. I'm running a VLTOR system but have gone up to an H3 without issue with any ammo I've tried.

What he said.

The Battle Comp annoys me to no end. I get a significant down ward movement and a vibration that is distracting. It is pretty blasty to boot.

The BCM Gunfighter is much flatter shooting for me with no weird vibration and much less blast.

Thanks a million for the feedback, and Mr Burns too. It would seem to me that with an 18" and the just right buffer weight and comp and even perhaps a tune-able gas block you could fine tune the recoil out to next to nothing for spotting your own shots through your own scope and fast follow up.

Thanks again.

I can see my hits and misses through the scope on my set up.
18" rifle gas
VLTOR A5H3
Surefire brake

Try an H2 buffer and go from there. If you're really wanting to be serious about eliminating muzzle rise to see your hits skip the battlecomp and get a real brake. The BC is a compromise, which isn't a knock on it-it was designed as a compromise flash hider / brake / not being overly obnoxious.

Try the JEC Brake. So far I really like it.

CBMJR

How ya like that vickers sling? I want one or four.

The Blue Force Vickers sling is my favorite by far. I have one for each of my AR's.

Trying to do more homework on the subject, but spotting my own shots via my own scope is a dream come true.
The VLTOR A5 system requires a new buffer tube, spring and buffer-weight, all VLTOR only products... correct? I am inclined to get it. All the reviews everywhere I have read are all very positive.

I am wondering what is it that makes the Vltor system mo better? What is the basic premise here?

Thanks for all the feedback.

http://shop.jeccustom.com/Quick-Brake-JEC-QB.htm

This one will turn off/on and accomdate a suppressor install. Looks very interesting.

The rifle extension is smoother than the carbine extension due to spring rates.

Also more reliable, IMO. A rifle buffer tube with an A1 stock is a great set up, IMO.

But can you get the compactness for shooting out of a vehicle?

More reliable with a 20" barrel combined with a collapsable stock but a properly built carbine is just as reliable as any rifle, in fact the extra gas pressure might even give it a plus in dirty conditions.

When used with a 16" barrel, most will never see any benefit or at least utilize it.

Everything is a trade off, isn't it? Short barrel, short-gas tubed rifles need a heavier buffer and spring to run reliably and the LW carriers won't run as many rounds without cleaning as the longer gun.

War Eagle...

Mind parting out the rifle in the picture some day when you get time?

That rifle now has a different barrel, irons, handguard, and also wears a suppressor most of the time. However, in the pic the specs were:

Complete LMT SOPMOD lower
Geissele SD-E trigger
Ergo Tac Deluxe grip
Daniel Defense Upper
BCM M16 BCG
Noveske NSR handguard
Noveske 18" barrel
Vortex flash suppressor
Atlas bipod
Nightforce 2.5-10x42 in a ADM Recon mount
Troy irons

Huh I missed this thread previously

Daniel Defense Mk12



I've replaced the DD buttstock with a Magpul, changed the trigger to a Geissele SDM, and changed the flash hider to a PWS triad. Completely reliable and easy to shoot. So far not a tack driver, but is getting a little better. I've bought some ASC mags and plan to try some 75gr Amax at 2.31 OAL.

I've also got a build started with a Noveske 18" SPR contour, mid-length, so it should be interesting to see how the comparison plays out.

And if I decide they are too heavy, there is always a 6920...

Thanks neighbor.

Does the DD mark 12 wear a chromed barrel? I cannot remember? All my chromed barrels tighten up after ironing out the bumps with about 1000 rounds.

Everyone should have one, of course.......

Mine is a KAC, 18" with a SS Kreiger barrel that weighs under 8 pounds, bare.

Barrel length is not necessarily the determining factor in accuracy & neither is weight, & as I understand it, the military is now going to source a revised configuration to fill the role mostly filled previously by the MK 12, but lighter & with a 16" barrel.

Supposedly, H-K is the chosen supplier.

MM

No, the DD Mk12 has a nitrided stainless barrel. It does seem to be shooting a bit better now, after 200-300 rounds.

At one point I thought about chamfering the muzzle of the DD, and bought a good piloted muzzle reamer. The DD took a pilot .001 larger than the Noveske, when I checked the two. The reamer also wouldn't even begin to cut the nitrided layer