Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Need Long range s/a Varmint thumper help

rcamuglia,

If someone has a device similar which holds only the scope does it qualify for objective testing?

Bob at Bob's Accuracy Shop has such a device. He can also check whether the scope will hold its zero after recoil.

Absolutely.

Many scopes die and work perfectly as to tracking, click values.

Recoil is what makes them go haywire. I'd like to hear about Bob's apparatus and see a pic!

Like libtards they won't listen to facts........

I truly don't blame them too much. All they know is really what is told to them or what they read. A tiny percentage have access to the equipment essential to making an educated opinion.

How many of the Bashers have ever shot a scope test at 25 or 50 yards to check if their scope is mounted correctly, tracks a perfect vertical line, and click values are correct?

Our friend from Alaska, Boxer, does it all the time and isn't as "off" as many think.

Check all of John Burns long range video kills. All with Leuopold scopes.

You can't hit and kill targets and animals at long range with first shots if the scope's click values are wrong.

If you are in competition and you need to use MIL holds for hold-over and your reticle's mil graduations aren't actually MILS, you miss. Same for hold-over while in the field hunting.


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My empirical data comes from hundreds of M24's, M110's, MK12's, MK13's, M2010's, SR25's, and Recce's. As well as a whole slew of hunting rifles. In that we have seen time and again that in a week of shooting we can expect to have 20-30 percent of issued Leupold variable Mark 4's develop problems. Quite a few will not function correctly straight out of the case. I see them side by side with NF, S&B, Hensoldt, Bushnell HDMR's, Vortex Razors, SWFA SS, etc. and yet don't have nearly the amount of problems out of all of them COMBINED as Leupold variable Mark 4's.


Same/same for hunting rifles.


Sometimes they lose zero, but mostly it's inconsistent/incorrect tracking. As soon as there is a question with any of them they go to the tracking board and are tested every 5 MOA for a total of 30 MOA or every 2 mils for a total of 10 mils. Tracking issues don't generally show up in small increments, which is why shooting the "box" with 4-5 MOA adjustments per side like most hunters do is useless.

Can you post some evidence like targets before and after, or do you only have hearsay as evidence?

I've posted pics of a Nightorce that failed after 2 shots. That's fact documented.

Not arguing that any scope, including Leupold, can go bad or be bad from the factory. I've had some go wrong, sent them in, and they've been fixed correctly and expediently.

My experience with Leupold I've laid out right here. One-shot long range kills, long range groups with cheap 400$ base models, groups with upper end tactical models, and accomplishments in competition with those models after thousands of rounds of use over multiple barrels on the same rifle/scope combo.

It's show and tell time. And not just tell

rcamuglia, you have me worried now about my 6.5-20x40 leupold on my saum.... I have yet to find any faults with the scope but how can I really be sure? Do you have a poor mans way to do tests to track how the scope tracks? Or should I not be worried?

Today's empiricle example after a seating depth adjustment on the 139 Scenar. Over 700 rounds since the load was developed. Had to increase OAL because of throat wear.


No sight adjustment made since the scope was mounted, load developed and zeroed. Note POI as to 1/4" aimpoint...








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Hey Hank,

I'm so sorry! To make yourself feel better simply put a Nightforce, Sightron, Burris (especially) on your rifle, sight it in, and shoot steel every 100 yards while dialing out to 1000 with your verified data.

Shake your head

Then dial 500 and use the reticle to do a holdover drill close to far.

Shake again

Remove POS scope and laugh.

Re-mount Leupold and use some kind of tray to catch overflow of confidence. And then call me in the morning.

Dr's Orders!

Can I just keep my leupold mounted and not worry about all that nonsense?

That's what I'd do! But it was kinda fun writing the prescription!

The problems with Leupolds schitting out is nothing new - that's just fine if you have yet to experience it, but it would be incredibly dense to discount other folk's experiences just because "it hasn't happened to me".

As for me, I've seen issues with several Army issued Mark 4s (all variables), and most recently with a 6.5-20.

Problems with Nightforce, Sightron, Burris, Premier, US Optics, Vortex, S&B and every other scope manufactured is nothing new either.

I've seen two S&B's go down in consecutive years at the Sniper's Hide Cup.

A faithful US Optics user who shoots Whittington Sporting Rifle Match says he's done with US Optics. He's had scopes fail continually and problems getting CS to repair them. The one that came back as repaired was sold online by him without even opening the box. He's a big time shooter and a heavy user.

I know two guys I shoot with who have had Nightforce failures. I have had a Nightforce failure.

I have had Leupold failures as well. It has happened to me. It also would happen to me if I used any other scope manufactured; it's a fact of life in the rifle game. Any competitor that uses his head for more than a hat rack travels to competitions with a back up scope already sighted in and mounted in rings. Same goes for a hunter who travels for a special hunt.

Same goes with trigger groups, bolts and extractors, and entire rifles.


What I'm tired of seeing is folks piling on Leupold like it's the only scope in the world that fails. Talk about "incredibly dense"....



Again PG, which scope do you use and what have you accomplished at long range with it?


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You do not post facts, you post your experiences and for some reason discount everyone else's. Is your last name Leupold?

This one still cracks me up, and you and your "guy" are the only two people in the history of shooting that claim Nightforce don't track.:



And I should save this little gem for signature material:



Thanks for the laughs!

Anytime dog!

Oh, and have another nice long pull on the Leupold Hater's Koolaid!

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Currently using a couple Nightforces, Leupold Fixed Mark 4s, and an SWFA SS on my dialing rigs.

Spent enough time in the real sniper game that I don't much care for digi-cam pretend time. My long range rounds are mostly sent towards p-dogs these days.

Don't get me wrong here. I like Leupold. My non-dialing hunting rifles use fixed x Leupolds. Seems like they have their stuff together with the Mark 6s and associate scopes. But the fact remains, the failure rate is unacceptable on a large number of their scopes. Even if they track perfectly, it matters not if they quit tracking. And it happens far too often.

There are enough other scopes out there these days that work, that I don't sweat it.

Naval Crane has stated NF has less than a 1% failure rate. The S&B PSR scopes around 2%. Depending on the model, Leupold variable Mark 4's 7-15%.


We're doing some shooting the next few days testing some issued guns. Not really precision stuff, but in the spirit of this thread, I thought I'd do some testing.

First up using one of the test 16in 7.62 gas guns, a brand new issue NF F1 Milspec.




Zeroed with M118LR and straight to a 7 mil tracking test. Used 7 mils because IPSC'a are the tallest target we have on hand.






The error-





The error through 7 mils is well Inside the range error of the PLRF 15 (+/- 1m out to 5K) used to measure the range.


On hand we have two Leupold Mark 4's, three Bushnell HDMR'S, two SWFA SS's, a Leupold 3-9x40mm, a Vortex Razor, and a Swarovski Z6 that we will shoot exactly the same way.


Bets on which ones track correctly...?

Great idea Formidilosus.

You'll be able to discover some things about the scopes, but not all things by any means. This test is best used to identify if the scope is mounted correctly (not turned in the rings) and precisely level to the action. The test you are running would best be done at 50 or even 25 yards. You'll get double or quadruple the adjustment range to evaluate. The evaluation will also be dependent on how well the rifle shoots. Use a 3ft sheet of paper too. Of course you'll have to do the math as well...


"Tracking" isn't the term to describe "Click Value Accuracy", which is what you are testing it seems. It describes how well the reticle moves vertically in relation to a perfectly vertical line. Most scopes veer off of the line at both ends of available travel. You'll probably be able to see how well they "track" by shooting, but only if you are able to have a target big enough to run the scopes through their total travel. To determine this, shoot groups at intervals through the total travel then use a laser level to draw a line vertically through the groups.