|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206 |
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Been waiting for a while now. If there is no new action by the end of the month, I'm going to have Ed LaPour shorten my Kimber 89 into what Kimber should have made to begin with! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The result, I believe, will be about the same as the sorely missed GRISEL short mauser action, only with a "tail" like the model 70. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 260 |
You can be sure there won't be a new action available at the end of the month!
Whether they'll be any new announcements on the timeframe for availability, I have no idea.
- stu
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
I suspect it'll be worth the wait but it's been around three years now so I wouldn't hold my breath.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052 |
I hope Matt gets this project off the ground, but delays always seem to be part of the program when new actions are in the works.
I don't know what you have in mind, but shortening your Kimber 89 is going to be an expensive proposition, and I'm not sure the results would be worth it.
If I wanted to come up with a really great short action for a special project of my own, I'd likely get a Granite Mountain, or else I'd find an older short-action Model 70 at a gunshow and have it totally and expertly reworked from the ground up..........
AD
"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."
Colonel Townsend Whelen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206 |
While I greatly respect your knowledgeable opinions, Mr. Day, I simply do not like model 70s.
A few others have voiced disdain for the Kimber 89 also, most without giving any reasons as to why. Chic Worthing, a quality artist to be sure, cites a lousy Wilson barrel and the fact the action was "cast". The barrel is easily replaced and we should be beyond the "it was cast" stage by now. Besides, I want to make it a 7mm-08 which should make the "cast" issue moot.
What I like best is the smaller ring profile of the model 70 coupled with mauser breeching. Most importantly, the model 89 has a very nice gas flange ala mauser along with the 3 position safety. The bolt handle is a great improvement over that ugly-ass, bent barn spike on the model 70.
As for cost, the $1100.00 spent for shorteneing my Kimber 89 is a far cry from the multi-thousand dollar granite mountain action.
To me, yes ignorant ole me, the Kimber 89 has the best of both the model 70 and the mauser. The mistake made by Kimber when making this action is a common one for American manufacturers. They started with the H&H length and used blocks to shorten for other cartridges. Of course, they made no short action at all.
Mr. LaPour will open up the feeding port 1/4"+ then shorten for the 7mm-08 cartridge. There is no action available this short that will accomadate the 308 length cartridges, with exception of the Dakota action. (or the Kimber 84) My arguement with the Dakota action is that it is still a model 70 since it has a crappy gas sheild that leaves much to be desired. Little "thingys" in the race way don't impress me at all!
And yes, for $1100.00 I could buy a Dakota action. I just think a shortened Kimber 89 is a better action! You can keep the new model 70 actions. I don't have one and I don't want one!
Now I'm not looking for an arguement. Nor do I wish to match my mechanical skills against yours. But I would like to hear why the Kimber 89 is not a good action. And most of all, I'd like to hear it from someone who has actually handled and shot one!
And to be quite honest, Mr. Day, I find those who would recommend a newer model 70, yet disparage a Kimber 89 either biased in favor of Winchesters or sorely lacking in experince with the Kimber 89?
OK, so I'll concede the Wilson barrel complaint. I plan on using a Krieger cut rifled barrel next time around. But if the only complaint is that the action is "cast", forgive me for believing a finely cast action is better than a poorly ground forged one anyday!
You might keep in mind, good sir, that the era of I'm who I am and this is my opinion does not work anymore. Today's experts must quantify their assessments, or risk being ignored as opinionated blowhards.
This has not been a flame, but actually a quest to find WHY, WHERE, WHEN, WHO and HOW? Answering these questions results in intellegent decisoin making. Anything else becomes foolishness.
Now this is only MY OPINION. But then again only one opinion counts, that of the person spending the money! And that's how it should be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
And yes, I am very sincere about wishing to hear the reasons why a current model 70 is better than a Kimber 89. Of course Id' like mechanical engineering reasons rather than opinions. The metalurgical reasons I don't need. Cast receivers are here to stay, like it or not.
Anyone can chime in here. This is not a debate of opinions between me and Allen Day.
Give me your reasons for liking or disliking either the model 70 or the Kimber 89. Opinions are nice, but please give me the reasons behind those opinions!
Regards,
Don
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,673
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,673 |
Don, I don't know what you have in mind, but shortening your Kimber 89 is going to be an expensive proposition, and I'm not sure the results would be worth it. That's what Allen said. Then YOU went off on some apparently hormone induced rant about people bashing Kimbers. Who in the hack bashed a Kimber? It was just pointed out that given the expense of buying and then shortening a Kimber is probably no the most fiscally sound decision one could make. I don't know what caused your hyper sensititvity to Kimber actions, but chill out man. It sounds as if you are not in a rational enough state of mind to be making financial decisions. Seriously, how long do you think it is going to take a smith to do all the work required to shorten and modify a Kimber action? Unless the guy has nothing else on his plate (and if he did, I'd not be sending work there), you're looking at a fairly long wait. Slapping an arbitrary deadline for Matt to have his action done, then taking on a long expensive project strikes me as the height of absurdity.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206 |
CAS,
Maybe you are right. I have been taking the "it's not a good idea" as Kimber bashing, although Chic stated he didn't like cast receivers?
Maybe too, I am frustrated over not being able to obtain what I really want in a rifle action? I won't argue with you about that.
Expensive is a relative term, isn't it?
Matt has been promising his action for several years now. I've been as patient as anyone. I even sent him my Kimber 89 to study while he worked on his design. My hope is that he will copy the Kimber 89 style of gas sheild.
I don't really suppose it would take any more time to shorten my action than to rework an existing piece of crap from Winchester or Remington?
Allen is not sure the end results would be worth it? Sounds like Kimber bashing to me? But that's OK. I'm not related nor do I own stock. The old Kimber is defunct now anyway!
I guess I'm kinda like Howard Hughes. It's my money and I don't care who thinks I make poor gun investements. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how to spend their monies, and I expect the same courtesy?
I can tell those who have an opinion based on....well, opinion. There are never any facts! Just more opinions.
But thanks for the critique anyway. Even an ole horses ass like me, learns from anything and everything said! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052 |
CAS, that's pretty much where I was coming from alright!
I could detail the reasons why I like the Model 70 Classic action better than the investment-cast Kimber 89, and I could also expand upon why custom riflemakers do as well, but for the sake of avoiding yet another "international incident", I think I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this matter.........
AD
"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."
Colonel Townsend Whelen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,722
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,722 |
And yes, for $1100.00 I could buy a Dakota action. I wish I could find one for that!
WAR EAGLE!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,646 Likes: 2 |
don "It's my money and I don't care who thinks I make poor gun investements. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how to spend their monies, and I expect the same courtesy?"
You wre asking for discussion, right? art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
I've never done LSD but I understand flashbacks are real... might/could explain things here...<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,206 |
OK, guys. I can see I'm odd man out here amongst the Winnie boys.
Ive learned about all this site has to offer me, so I think I'll switch over to the AR site.
Oh yeah, I know. They have pompus asses over there too! Just like the ones who post here.
But they have something I find lacking here. They have real experts who present intellegent reasons for their opinions. And most of all, they post pictures of the work they have done for all to see and judge for themselves.
They may pontificare at times, but damn they back it up with pictures of real guns. I guess AR would suit me better since I'm mainly interested in custom work.
I'll try and be smarter this time around and limit myself to the gunsmithing threads!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 139
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 139 |
Putting $1100 into any action to shorten it would be very difficult for me to justify. I'd consider the Granite Mountain Kurz action, with the caveat that they are quite heavy for what they are. Here's a nice rifle, built on a GMA kurz action. It's priced right (especially if you could talk them down a bit). WR Used Guns Note in the description though, the unscoped rifle weighs in at 8 lbs 14 oz. This ain't no mountain rifle.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
Don, you took one sentence of non-judgemental, sound reason (Allen's), found meaning that wasn't there and proceeded to rail against a work of fiction YOU created in your noggin. You're opining you're the "odd man out"? I promise you that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Winchester actions...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,116
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,116 |
Oh yeah, I know. They have pompus asses over there too! Just like the ones who post here. Soon to be one less here!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,844
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,844 |
Wow!!! I must of missed something.Seemed members where just trying to help and give some options. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052 |
Don, it sounds to me as though you didn't get the answer you were looking for with a pretty pink ribbon wrapped around it, so you went into a snit, decided to call names, then pack up and head somewhere else. I believe you would have received some very good, complete, and logical answers if you would have given us a chance.
Go ahead and go on over to AR, but you're likely to find out that, while the grass might appear to be greener on the other side of the fence, it'll prove to be just as tough to mow............. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
AD
"The placing of the bullet is everything. The most powerful weapon made will not make up for lack of skill in marksmanship."
Colonel Townsend Whelen
|
|
|
|
526 members (10gaugeman, 1234, 1lessdog, 1badf350, 10Glocks, 160user, 59 invisible),
2,191
guests, and
1,185
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,367
Posts18,506,428
Members74,000
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|