Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada RCMP seize firearms in flooded High River

CanuckShooter;
I hope that this Canada Day weekend finds you and yours doing well sir.

I've quoted your post in it's entirety as there is nothing that you've stated - well articulated too might I add - that I don't agree with.

We've got both business and personal ties in the Calgary flood and business associates who've been very much affected by the High River flood.

While I've not heard all of the details as yet, I can't conceive of a situation where a LEO should be adding to the dismay of the good folks in High River by seizing firearms.

At this juncture too, I remain unconvinced that it's anything other than an illegal seizure - so I'll continue calling it that until proven wrong.

I've had a lifetime of relationships with various RCMP officers and have the utmost respect for the individuals that I've come to know and call friends.

The organization as a whole however seems to have very much lost it's focal point where serving some of the rural communities are concerned. While I'm sure there are "things going on" in some rural prairie towns, it isn't downtown Edmonton or Vancouver - I've got friends and know good men in both Edmonton and Vancouver PD who would agree with that.

Like my cyber friend GRF, I'm much less than satisfied with the actions of our national police force in this instance as it appears right now.

All the best to you and yours this weekend CanuckShooter.

Dwayne

Exactly, the RCMP in this, as in so many other immoral and essentially totalitarian actions in recent years, have demonstrated WHY so many average, decent, native-born Canadians do not trust, respect or like them.

They are now a disgrace to Canada and should be disbanded and all current members not accepted as potential recruits into a new and socially beneficial national police group. This, is because all of the now serving members have been inculcated with the "cop mentality" that sees themselves as somehow "special" and above the law.

One wonders, HOW, did these particular members KNOW where all of these guns WERE? Do they have and against the expressed policy of the current Canadian government, some LIST of who has which guns?

In my opinion and it deeply saddens me to say this, but, the police in Canada, especially our once-revered and now largely despised RCMP, ARE THE "problem." We must clean this mess up or face far worse situations than this one, which should become a warning to all decent Canadians!

kutenay;
Good morning to you sir, Happy Canada Day to you folks as well.

As you've stated, this is part of the issue facing both the RCMP and Canadians.

In my estimation, the entire Geoff Mantler fiasco in Kelowna and now this mess in High River puts it all into sharp focus in many ways.

What the RCMP - and I'm talking about the body as a whole entity, not individual enlightened officers who hopefully still exist - fail to realize is that if something of magnitude happens that they're going to need us "average" Canadians to give them a hand.

If they continue down the path they are on, I'd venture to say that more and more "average" Canadians are going to be less and less inclined to do so - or help them out in any way.

As you know kutenay, effective policing cannot exist without the support of the community. This has been a historically proven fact time and again.

Lastly, while I perhaps shouldn't even be articulating this on open forum, the RCMP have a lot of ground to make up when it comes to respect from their fellow LE entities here in the west.

I'd go into details that with you in private on our back deck sometime over something wet - you folks are invited by the way - but I'll leave it at that.

Anyway, it's a bloody sad day when our national police force doesn't have the intuition to understand they are loosing or have already lost everything they need to be effective. Every day I'm getting closer to your position of starting over again with a lot of things here in Canada and from what I understand we are not alone.....

All the best to you and yours again this Canada Day sir.

Dwayne

Does the Ombudsman ever do anyone any good? Is it a national joke?

wabigoon;
Hopefully this finds you and yours well on this Canada Day long weekend - I'll send you best wishes as an honorary Canuck if that's OK?

While this is only my opinion on your question, I'd say that at present the best hope in the High River issue being taken dealt with is that the Prime Minister's office has come out against the actions of the RCMP.

Whether they like to admit it or not, the RCMP do have to answer to the folks that will appoint the Commissioner and that's the PM's office.

Here's a couple links to news stories on the matter.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...-seized-from-evacuated-high-river-homes/

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/06/29/rcmp-response-to-flooding-in-high-river-was-a-disaster

This is a pretty big black eye for the RCMP in my estimation, especially so in Alberta - who incidentally like BC just signed contracts with the RCMP to police the province. We both used to have provincial police services and unless I miss my guess this will cause a lot of folks to begin to work studiously towards reinstating them again.

Then too, the municipalities and the province pay the RCMP detachments and again whether they like to discuss it openly or not, when they get their budgets choked off and lose community support the RCMP will find it nigh onto impossible to conduct their tasks in a meaningful way.

In our last federal election Canadian gun owners seem to have made the difference in who got it - right wing Conservatives and who was completely obliterated - left wing Liberal Party of Canada.

A whole bunch of fund raising money for the Conservative party comes from western sources - Saskatchewan, Alberta and some BC sources too. They aren't happy about the situation in High River and one can be assured that has been communicated with the Conservative party in a meaningful way.

We'll see if the RCMP brass both in Ottawa and in Alberta have enough of a grasp on their situation to turn this around. I'm hopeful that they understand which way the wind is blowing here, but honestly am not overly optimistic this time.

Oh, the office of the Ombudsman - in my opinion - has no teeth and is treated as such.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it again wabigoon. All the best to you and yours this weekend.

Dwayne

I am not sure if any Ombudsman anywhere has teeth. Sometimes if a stink gets raised, something might get done.
One problem here, the media is on the wrong side.

wabigoon;
Our media for the most part is no better than yours and as we watch a whole lot of US media up here I can say that with confidence.

I was thinking of different ways that the local community's cooperation is vital to effective policing and it brought to mind a tale from my somewhat checkered youth.

In the '70's a bunch of us would hang out at a local garage/service station - "us" being the local "motor heads". At any given time there'd be between 6-10 jacked up muscle cars parked out front, sometimes one on the hoist getting a tune up or new transmission installed before an evening of "letting the horses run a wee bit."

Anyway... this was also the garage that tuned the local police cars too, so the young mechanic would always take the interceptor out on the highway and then report back to us what the top speed was.

It was - from time to time - handy to know details like that.

All the best to you and yours sir.

Dwayne

Ever see "American Graffiti"? The part where they yank the axel from the police car?

wabigoon;
Indeed I saw it when it first came out and several times since.

I had a poster of Edward Milner and his yellow '32 Ford in my garage until a couple years ago.

We were mostly good farm kids who meant no harm to anyone and for the most part were quite respectful of the local LEO. Many were the times they let me off with a warning or simply pointed north which meant I wasn't supposed to come back into town until next weekend.

It was sort of a game with me and if I was tagged by the constabulary then I took what I had coming to me with grace and respect. I believe they liked those rules of engagement and responded in kind towards me.

Anyway we didn't wish any ill befall the constables and in retrospect a few of the younger ones likely looked forward to seeing how their cruisers would run against our hot rods.

It all seems like a lifetime ago now wabigoon - maybe even a different planet or some such, you know?

Hopefully you all have a good Sunday sir.

Dwayne

The boys in a local town would use an unfiltered cigarette as a time delay fuse. Set off a string of firecrackers a block away while they were chatting with the town policeman. He'd go tearing off to apprehend the culprit. Fairly harmless prank.

I wonder how many of the confiscated guns have been tampered with or damaged?? You cannot trust strangers to have care and control of your firearms when there is a very real possibility some of them may be PITA sympathizers. I know that I'd never trust that the gun being returned to me was the same one that was lifted. :-(

I clipped this from another site, FYI
===============================================================

This is from a friend's friend's status. They are in the High River area, their home was flooded (lots of damage) names are removed:

"... We also are missing three rifles , one that was in ****'s closet and two that were locked in the gun rack in ****'s den. All three were secured with gun locks and secure lock cables. The cables were cut to remove them... "

There really needs to be hell raised over this. Nothing else was removed from the house.
=================================================================


How can anyone express the outrage these people must be feeling by this violation of our rights to be free from unreasonable search and seizure??

CanuckShooter;
Happy Canada Day to you sir, I hope this finds you well.

On gunnutz there is quite a furor - understandably - about the whole High River situation.

While I hope that some good will come of it, such as better ground rules for the RCMP in emergency situations, I'm not sure it will be enough to force a sea change in their organization.

As many have stated as well as me, there are indeed good individual officers there with some horse sense, but the organization needs fundamental changes made in how they interact with us if they remotely hope to be even marginally effective in their task.

When we were evacuated by the Vaseaux fire I'll admit that I didn't really give any thought to being armed or not. Let's just say that most days when we travel the back country there's a variety of tools along that have proven helpful in dealing with the vagaries of life and leave it there.

I do recall saying to my good wife as we were pulling the horse trailer out of the driveway that if the place burned down I'd like to change the house design next time.

That and I recall telling her that I'd likely not build another belted magnum rifle again.

As I'm a member of BCWF and the NFA, I'll be getting updates on developments in High River for sure, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

All the best to you and yours again this Canada Day sir.

Dwayne

A lot of RCMP are lone ranger types inventing stuff as they go.
Most RCMP don't even know the rules for firearm conveyance or storage.

378Canuck;
Unfortunately you are all too correct in that sir.

I've made it a practice of carrying a current print out straight from the RCMP website - with their logo on top and everything - of the rules of transport and storage.

There's been a couple times where I patiently tried to explain firearms law to both RCMP Constables and Canadian Border Services officers.

Most LEO in Canada are emphatically not "gun people" and never will be. What they do need to be however is aware of the law and how it pertains to them enforcing it.

Perhaps a few high profile cases such as this mess in High River will educate a few Constables in that regard.

Hey, I can always hope can't I?

All the best to you this weekend 378Canuck.

Regards,
Dwayne

I would like to see us change to the US system of government with an elected senate and congress to keep a balance against big boss at the top

And end up with another Obama running our country-no thanks.

Both the Constitutional Republic, and the Parliamentary government types require elected officials with a certain amount of intelligence.

wabigoon;
I hope this finds you and yours well today sir.

It sorta strikes me that an important ingredient missing these days is an intelligently informed electorate.

That would be a grand first step towards ensuring a better grade of elected officials.

The cynic who lives deep inside of me sometimes rises to the surface and suggests that we end up with the elected officials that we deserve....

Thankfully he doesn't make it out that often though.

Dwayne

Dwayne, Thanks for the usual kindness. It would either follow, or go before that an intelligent electorate would elect the aforesaid officials.