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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 142
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 142 |
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11 |
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23 |
+1....... my 223AI has a -0- @ 300 w/53 V max plain 223 will work fine....boolits are cheaper than 6mm
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,483
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,483 |
At that range a standard 223 will get it done just fine. Hornady V-Max or Nosler B.T. bullets in the weight that your gun shoots most accurately work well, as will many other bullets.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23 |
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,439 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,439 Likes: 1 |
Regular 223 with 12 or faster twist will do you just fine if it is your first PD rifle. Once you are familiarized with the .223, its goods (many) and bads (few), then you can decide the next toy in your cabinet.
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,954 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,954 Likes: 21 |
At that range a standard 223 will get it done as will a 17 hornet.....
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Yep, or .17 Fireball, .22 Hornet loaded with plastic-tip 40's, .221 Fireball, .204 Ruger, and a host of wildcats in the same general range.
Anymore I regard the standard .223 as on the heavy side for 300-yard PD shooting--and most humans can't hit 'em consistently much farther than that, in average conditions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,954 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,954 Likes: 21 |
Yep, or .17 Fireball, .22 Hornet loaded with plastic-tip 40's, .221 Fireball, .204 Ruger Who'da thunk it?...... I didn't believe that Mule Deer guy, so's I took the 17 fireball for a spin a while ago. Shaaaazzzzaaammm....The furball really will do it at 300.. Well, I be dammed.....
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,757 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,757 Likes: 1 |
Huntsman, you and your 17s are a bad influence! Mule Deer too, trouble!
Now I'm thinking I need something different too, maybe a 20VarTarg. Hey, it's 300 yds or less.
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,961 Likes: 23 |
At that range a standard 223 will get it done as will a 17 hornet..... 20 Vartarg
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 76 |
CZ American in 223 would be my first choice, but I probably prefer a lighter gun than most and I have other guns to shoot and if you don't, remember that barrel will heat up very quickly. Or if you don't care if you burn the throat out of a barrel in a few days of shooting, you can buy new takeoffs for ~$75 and have a gunsmith change them out for fairly cheap when you get home.
The CZ in 223 or 204 in varmint weight will give you substantially more range than 300 yards, either will work just fine. The 223 varmint weight guns have a faster twist than the American and in my opinion the 204 needs the barrel length of the varmint over the American.
Actually, I don't know where I stand on the CZ American in 204, mine does not give me the velocities I was looking for out of the shorter barrel on the American. Just because I haven't really warmed to it doesn't mean that it isn't something to look at. I have had it five years and don't use it enough to have a valid opinion. If you are interested in looking at that option, ask around. I think if I spent more time with it, and less out hunting it might just pan out to be as good as anything and better than most. But make sure you get valid opinions.
17 caliber rifles are not going to cut it in the wind on the high desert in Montana where I shoot prairie dogs. I have a 17 Rem and it is plenty accurate, but the wind will kill you. I shoot more rock chucks with it than prairie dogs for exactly that reason, although the wind blows up the coulees of central and eastern Washington too. The 17 is only going to be good for a few hours in the morning where I shoot, because that is the only time the wind is not blowing pretty stiff.
All of the above being said, a Howa is a good gun too if you are just getting going and want to stay with a relatively inexpensive gun to start out with. If you want to spend more, the options are almost endless. I don't care for Savage rifles, but a lot of people like them just fine.
Last edited by JDHasty; 07/14/13.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
JDhasty,
I don't know what loads you're comparing to your .17 Remington, but with a 25-grain V-Max at 4000 fps a .17 Remington will drift noticeably less in the wind than a .223 with a 50-grain V-Max even at 400 yards. And there isn't enough difference in wind drift between a .17 Fireball with a 20 at 4000-4100 and a .223 with a 50 to tell at 300-400.
I live in Montana so do most of my prairie dog shooting here, and to beat the fast .17's, it takes something more wind-resistant than a typical .223 with 50-grain bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 299
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 299 |
the main thing about shooting pd's is to shoot the lightest recoil rifle/caliber.... so... you can watch the impacts. If you can't see the impacts... what's the fun of shooting them
Forgive My Sins Jesus, Save My Soul
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,672 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,672 Likes: 3 |
I did this very thing last weekend in wind swept Wyoming, my favorite combo for 300yd pd's is a 222 with 40gr Blitzkings
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,932 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,932 Likes: 2 |
I shoot a 22 L.R. out to 300 yards on prairie dogs, though a bit more horsepower is preferable past 150 yards.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,932 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,932 Likes: 2 |
My current favorite is a 223 AI loaded down to 22 Hornet levels with 40 grain Ballistic Tips. It satisfies the 3 bears scenario of not little and not too much... it's just right. Also works nicely for fireforming brass.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,439 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,439 Likes: 1 |
Yeah, I have a Blue Dot formula for that. Like having a hot, ACCURATE Hornet. John is, as usual, right. But I will still stick with a .223 for the central rifle in the varmint quiver. I have a Fireball for a bit less, and a 22BR for a little more. Just depends on what's out in front, I guess.
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 76
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 76 |
Fair enough. My 17 Rem is a H&R Ultra Wildcat and although it sports a 1:10 twist it will not shoot 25 grain Vmax at all. They keyhole and I'm lucky to hit an 8.5x11 target twice out of ten shots at a hundred yards.
Actually the bullets I shoot are not even as slippery as the current Hornaday HPs, they are the last of about three thousand of the Hornaday/Remington 25 grain HPs that Remington used to sell bulk packed in lots of 500.
So I would also apply my advice regarding the 204 CZ American to the 17 then, and get more than one opinion. But that being said you would not want a gun like my Ultra Wildcat that weighs about five pounds. You would burn the throat out of it in a good day of shooting.
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