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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 481
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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If corporations and unions are collaborating with politicians to give us the federal government we have today it is hard for me to support them.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,208
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,208 |
I'm not really concerned with the whole union issue. That will eventually resolve itself. You do know that Michigan recently became a "right to work" state, meaning autoworkers won't automatically be forced to join the union?
My real issue is purely financial, we're draining our assets and sending them abroad every time we purchase foreign goods and it is something that will eventually take us all down. Ford and GM profits go to shareholders. Toyota and Honda don't even bother to list their shares on our stock exchanges.
As for innovation, I'm talking about something that never existed and then changed the automotive landscape, not simple product modifications and extensions. For example - Airbags. They didn't exist until General Motors invented them. Today they're on every new vehicle sold. Japanese auto makers have never shown that level of innovation.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,830 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,830 Likes: 4 |
Ken, I don't question your experience or integrity and thank you for chiming in...
but when we talk about innovation, American companies have it... but then the bean counters destroy it by buying stuff as cheap as possible and then play a Russian roulette game of how many will they have to replace vs how much we saved getting it cheaper..
just visited a female cousin up in Seattle that bought a 2011 Cadillac SVS (?) last year... computerized out the wazzo...
a passing car was spraying its window wash and some of it landed on the windshield of the Caddy as we drove down I 5.. the windshield wipers started to work on intermittent mode.. with a little computer voice telling us "potential rain ahead"...
do we really need that much computer innovation??? just something else to go wrong down the road in my book...
way back in High School use to sometimes drive a relative's 58 Caddy with the automatic headlight dimmer switch on it.. couldn't do it manually...
so you go down Constitution Ave in DC, and the headlight go back and forth continually from high beam to low beam as we hit under every street light....another "innovation" do we all really need?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Good for Gov't Motors but my Pruis gets 45 mpg.
I don't care what their quality rating, I'll NEVER buy a GM product again. They, like the investment banks, ought to have been allowed to go bankrupt but for corrupt power brokers giving them my money. I would rather bang my dick with a ball-peen hammer atop an anvil that be caught driving a "Pius"...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,830 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,830 Likes: 4 |
now we are getting somewhere Walt...
your issue being financial...and for our economy...
but as I saw in a Ford Dealerships waiting room they had a big poster "What Does buy American REALLY Mean?"
as it pointed out, parts are made all over the globe, American cars are built in Mexico to save a buck and avoid unions once again...
and then you have Americans making foreign cars on our shores, paying American Taxes and American Workers...
Then you have GM getting Tax Payer Bail out money,and using it to expand operations in Mexico supporting the Mexican economy and Mexican workers... not American workers of the local American Economy...
so it really becomes a grey area of what is American and what isn't...
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,700
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,700 |
Ken, I don't question your experience or integrity and thank you for chiming in...
but when we talk about innovation, American companies have it... but then the bean counters destroy it by buying stuff as cheap as possible and then play a Russian roulette game of how many will they have to replace vs how much we saved getting it cheaper..
just visited a female cousin up in Seattle that bought a 2011 Cadillac SVS (?) last year... computerized out the wazzo...
a passing car was spraying its window wash and some of it landed on the windshield of the Caddy as we drove down I 5.. the windshield wipers started to work on intermittent mode.. with a little computer voice telling us "potential rain ahead"...
do we really need that much computer innovation??? just something else to go wrong down the road in my book...
way back in High School use to sometimes drive a relative's 58 Caddy with the automatic headlight dimmer switch on it.. couldn't do it manually...
so you go down Constitution Ave in DC, and the headlight go back and forth continually from high beam to low beam as we hit under every street light....another "innovation" do we all really need? Agreed. Too much technology = more things to go wrong eventually. I never agreed with ABS years ago, which is now an archaic innovation. Let me control my own driving, I'm doing it long enough. Now too many vehicles come in with an ABS light on. Problem is that next year it has to get repaired in order to get a yearly inspection in NYS and that means more consumer spending. That's just one example. -Ken
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,401 |
Morning boys! New day, time to shoot a few more fish in the old barrel for me! Step right up, who wants to go first?  Congrats to GM. Any profits should not go to shareholders, but should go toward paying back the US taxpayers in full for their bailout.
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,208
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,208 |
now we are getting somewhere Walt...
your issue being financial...and for our economy...
but as I saw in a Ford Dealerships waiting room they had a big poster "What Does buy American REALLY Mean?"
as it pointed out, parts are made all over the globe, American cars are built in Mexico to save a buck and avoid unions once again...
and then you have Americans making foreign cars on our shores, paying American Taxes and American Workers...
Then you have GM getting Tax Payer Bail out money,and using it to expand operations in Mexico supporting the Mexican economy and Mexican workers... not American workers of the local American Economy...
so it really becomes a grey area of what is American and what isn't... I don't care where parts are made, only where profits go, which would be the shareholders. Ford and GM shareholders are predominately here in the U.S., so the profits flow to this country. Japanese autos? Profits flowing to Japan. Time for that to stop. A perfect example is Apple computer. Innovation here in the U.S., but products built in China. But the profits flow to the U.S. If you're going to have production outside the U.S., that is how it should be. Profits always flowing back to the U.S.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 19,722
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 19,722 |
Slurp it up walt they may get the no bell prize next year.
NRA Lifetime Member
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Good for Gov't Motors but my Pruis gets 45 mpg.
I don't care what their quality rating, I'll NEVER buy a GM product again. They, like the investment banks, ought to have been allowed to go bankrupt but for corrupt power brokers giving them my money. I would rather bang my dick with a ball-peen hammer atop an anvil that be caught driving a "Pius"... Would there be an actual reason for this? Or do you simply don't care for your dick?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
"dick" is the operative word in this treatise as in metrosexual or allowing your wife to have two last names...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
I've got 2 business management degrees, which will describe my union affiliation preferences from day one. Secondly, I own my own small business of an auto repair shop. Everyone has a personal experience & opinion as to which vehicle manufacturer is better or worse. Mine is based upon many, many years of seeing & fixing 'em all. As of 3 years ago (non-warranty)--- Foreign.... Toyota & Honda are decent & reliable. American... GM & Ford are decent. Remember, all gasoline cars basically the same. Some have more glitz & bells than others, but down to it they're all basically the same. Different color paint, that's it imho. If I had to evaluate the better manufacturer, it would definitely be GM. Their technology & innovations were always 4-5 yrs ahead of the rest. I'm talking about important inventions that most consumers never see, ie; electronics, computer systems. When the first US mandated computer systems came to fruition in late 1980, theirs was completely sophisticated electronically controlled, Honda's was vacuum electronic. No comparison imo. OBD II came around '96 and many foreign companies copied GM's older system & components to "grade" themselves up, while I saw GM get even more sophisticated. Just my opinion.  -Ken That's a very interesting and accurate evaluation. One of my beefs with GM in the 90's is they were behind Ford and even Dodge in bringing creature comfort and styling innovations to market. GM was always two or three years behind Ford and Dodge. They were very slow but measured. The mechanical aspects are a different story. Sure they had bad vehicles but a lot of engineering was solid, well designed, and innovative. The 3.8 V-6, Vortec engines, Cadillac Northstar, OBD 11, Duramax diesel, and Allison transmissions are a few noteworthy designs. I never looked it from the mechanical perspective before. I always thought GM was just plain slow in bringing new vehicles to market but after reading your post I now have a different perspective. Thanks Capt Ed.
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,953 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,953 Likes: 15 |
J.D. Power is about as relevant as Motor Trend car / truck of the year, nobel peace prize, time person of the year etc.....
Jr. high popularity contest , nothing more.
Roy
What this world needs is a few more Rednecks.
The Dildō Of Consequence Rarely Arrives Lubed
Waterboarding isn't illegal if you use diesel
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,723
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,723 |
My wife got in her... Mexico built 2010 Cadilac SRX with 10,000 miles on it, about 2 months ago to go to work, hit the windshield washer button and washer fluid sprayed her in the eyes!!!!!Great Quality. We no longer own it.
“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
OK I gots to ax, where did they washer fluid come from???
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
That is really great that GM has highly innovative engineers. It doesn't mean a damn thing and never will. Toyota's per/hr labor costs are roughly 2/3 that of GM's. Toyota's resale value trumps GM's hands down. Toyota, because of their reputation, can and does demand a higher profit margin than GM can.
Saying that GM can compete(without fedgov help) against Toyota is like saying your local high-school football team can stomp the dogschit out of any team in the NFL. GM did it to themselves, but first, they did it to a lot of hardworking blue-collar boys.
Selling out to the UAW sealed their fate.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,107
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,107 |
I can't do GM.
My father retired from Detroit Diesel(GM). It's all that was ever parked in our driveway, except my first car, a '66 Charger. But no more for me.
I will say pop's last two trucks totaled nearly 600,000 miles between them and the latest is still going strong.
American cars are reliable and getting nicer. While I like Toyotas, and love the Tundra, the newest ones seem to be getting awful chincy.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,467
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,467 |
...J.D. Power & Associates� Initial Quality Study... J.D. Power & Associates and their "surveys" were debunked as the load of horseshit they were a few years ago by Consumer Reports. They -- J.D. Power & Associates -- focus their "results" on new car buyers, not people who own and maintain their vehicles for a number of years. When that's factored in -- revisiting the owner several months and years after their initial purchase and asking them if they were happy with their purchase, would they purchase that make and model again, were they satisfied with the cost of ownership, etc. -- GM sucks.
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum. I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person. The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,723
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,723 |
They run the washer fluid line inside the car to the back window, and forgot to put a clamp on the fitting!!!! when she hit the button it came out the speaker on the roof pillar....She came in the house mad as hell, I Thought she was full of it, So I tried it for myself!!!! right between the eyes!!!!
“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,700
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
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YW Fish head. BTW, JD Power, I'll teach them.  -Ken
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