Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Killing deer at 1000 yards

IFID,
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<br>No damage at all to my personal life... mines perfect, beautiful wife, beautiful ranch, great guests, great hunting.
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<br>Good way to over simplify LRH
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<br>One question, If you are not a LRH why are you here....?
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<br>seems to me I have more and better reasons to be here than you do....
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<br>answer: to do what you like to do and you are good at..... you fill in the rest with your special twist...

WW:
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<br>Regarding your personal life, I was simply responding to your statement, and I quote, "I should have just left and did my thing... I wish I would have." YOU are the one who suggested that this site was bothering you.
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<br>I am here because I want to be, if all you want is LRHs here then why are you here and not on the longrange web site? If my presence bothers you that is your problem and you can deal with it in 2 easy ways as I see it......learn to live with it, or leave. Because I am here almost everyday, even if I don't post and I have refrained from responding to your outbursts for months, but enough was enough.
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<br>Tell me, I have read every post the LR hunters have made in here, and if my description of LR hunting and the activities of the animals they actually shoot at and their identical characteristics to grazing cattle is not accurate, please correct any misconceptions I have. Otherwise admit you are shooting animals that are no more concerned with your presence or activities than cattle would be, therefore, save yourself some time and effort, go out and buy some calves and shoot 'em. Same thing. And you can do it year around.You wouldn't have to bother with all those regulations set up for the rest of us ordinary hunters. Save on license fees, tags, don't have to clean them if you don't want to, streamline the whole killing process.
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<br>I am going to say this one more time, I don't care how far you kill your animals and I don't care how you do it, and, in an effort to maintain civility on this forum I am going to refrain from any more responses to you in this thread. It is circular, you just don't know when to quit when you are ahead. You want everyone to give their seal of approval to your style of killing and that will never happen. Learn to live with it.

Bill (Partsman) , Okanagan, Boyd, Ric and others who have given very valid points.
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<br>You are correct, longrange is not for the average Joe hunter, as you mentioned.
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<br>It takes years of practice and should "NEVER" be attemted by the person who walks into his sporting goods store, buys a 300 RUM Sendaro with a large Leupold LR scope, buys 2 or 3 boxes of "factory" ammo and then calls himself a LR hunter. No way is he in any stretch of the imagination.
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<br>I have seen with bigeyes binoculars, Colorado SRHs jump from their truck and shoot at running elk with their 30/06 AND 243 rifles at 800 yards and empty their clips. Did they hit any, I don't have a clue and neither did they as, they never walked out to see if there was any blood. This is how the true and dedicated LRH gets a bad rap. It is many times the SRH who tries to reach out with his hunting rifle or the incorrect equipment.
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<br>If you see a LR hunting team of 2 or 3 standing on a high ridge with bigeye binoculars, large rifles and rangefinders , they have no doubt done their homework very well. These guys will cleanly kill their game at extreme range and much further then 1000 yards.
<br>If you see the 1 or 2 person team sitting on a far ridge with a backpack, bipods on their rifles and scanning the distant areas with medium glasses and rangefinders, these guys (like Dave King) no doubt did their homework also. They will dispatch game up to 800 yards quite easily.
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<br>Here is the problem the way I see it on this or any forum.
<br>Some people read what some of us are and have done with the correct equipment and years of experiance under our belt and they think they can do it right a way too.
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<br>They go out hunting without having the guidence of an experianced LR hunter with them to show and tell, how it should and MUST be done safely. When and if this happens, wounding and loss of the animal "can" occur.
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<br>We as LR hunters have and will continue answering questions as best we can for those who are honestly trying to learn from our experiance. Nothing more.
<br>If you don't accept the LR way, that's OK. We are not trying to ram our way down your throat. .
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<br>We do care enough about our sport to try and educate those to the correct way of LR hunting and to be successful at it. If we can do that, I personnally feel we have guided that person down the correct path to start with. If the LR way is done correctly and with the correct equipment, there will be less or even NO wounding of the animals. Just quick kills.
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<br>For those who have NO desire to LR hunt, we will not try to sway them as they never will understand or accept the concept anyway. If some want to call it ethical or unethical, it really makes no difference to us.
<br>We have found that LRH is an extremely quick way of dispatching, killing, harvesting or culling (whatever you prefer to call it) an animal when you do it corectly.
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<br>We as LRHs understand the other hunting ways and styles. Most of us have hunted just about every way there is to hunt, throughout our years afield. Sort of been there, done that.
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<br>From what I have seen on this forum since Ric Bin asked us to come here, as soon as we make a statement as to how far the animal was killed, you have the SRH who does not believe it and won't EVER consider hunting the way we do because of various reasons.
<br>I can only say that, for those who don't accept it, fine. We are not here to sway you to our style at all.
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<br>We only want to reach the person who honestly wants to know how it is done and may have the facility to practice his loading and shooting skills as he reaches out further and further downrange while understanding and realizing what his rifle is capable of. Many SRHs have no idea what even their rifle is capable of let alone the equipment most of the LR crowd have at their disposal.
<br>It takes years of practice to do the LR way correctly. It's not an overnight thing.
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<br>I'm sure there are some spelling mistakes here as I'm in a hurry also.
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<br>Thanks for the space.
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<br>Darryl Cassel
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IFID's
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<br>I don't want just LRH's what I ( my opinion ) would like to see is more people interested in LRh and discusions on the mechanics of it and ideas and facts that pertain to it.
<br>I can do without the complaints ( after all I'm human ) but I am willing to deal with it...
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<br>I don't care if your here or not , I just found it amusing that a guy who does not support it would spend so much time here.. says alot for your motives in posting..
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<br>or maybe after all you've done ( said ) and your style of it.. maybe I just don't ... aww never mind.. I waste my time... with you.....

In many Western states (Idaho for example), there is a maximum weight limit of 16lbs on hunting rifles. That includes the scope/sling/any bipod ... all-up. So all those super-accurate 55lb rigs or 40lb or even 20lb setups that you might use in 1000 yard competitions would be illegal for big game hunting out here. Also, don�t plan on driving around on a road with your shooting bench and big-eyes in the back of a truck, since it�s also illegal to shoot at big game "from or across a road" out here.
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<br>My guess is that a lot of this so called LRH is done on private lands or leases and in states where there is no weight limit on the rifles. If those who would like to wear the label LRH are not violating state hunting or firearms safety laws, and it turns their crank, I say let them proceed. The good news is, they won�t be able to export it out here (under the guise of hunting).
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<br>In my view, claims of long range "hunting" ends at the distance where you need to begin to fire "spotter" rounds, to walk your shot in. It then becomes long range "lobbing" (LRL) and has no further relation to hunting. The appropriate time to figure-out where your bullet is going to impact by lobbing some copper/lead downrange, is not in the middle of the hunting season (in my woods). If you don�t already know where your shot is going to go and how much the wind will affect it at the distance you are about to shoot at a big game animal, then you are shooting outside the range where YOU are capable of making a one-shot kill.
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<br>Also, don�t kid yourself that the target deer/elk are unalerted by your super-sonic rounds impacting near them and creating enough of a "splash" for your spotter to observe/report. Just because the animal doesn�t immediately run off, doesn�t mean that they remain calm and relaxed. Even the delayed sound of your rifles report reaching them is sure to alter their previously "un-alerted" state, as well as disturb any other game or hunters in the area that you may not even know are there. Many western hunters wear full camo as they invisibly stalk game through the woods (Oregon/Idaho have no Hunter-Orange requirements). Unless you are lobbing those spotter rounds safely into open fields, you might want to get ready for some incoming return-fire (insert "revenge" smiley face here).
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<br>While I may personally find some of the so called LRH activities unappealing, I find their discussions of equipment, techniques and their contributions to long range ballistic and accuracy intriguing. Just as all shooters benefit from accuracy advancements initiated by the benchrest competitors, we can also learn much from the 1000 yard competitors as well.
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<br>My opinion .... If you are "carrying" a less than 16lb rifle though the woods, spot a legal big game animal (possibly laser range it), set up in a solid field rest (or use your bipod) and kill it with ONE well placed shot, then you can claim to be a LRH at what ever distance that shot was made at.
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<br>If you need spotter rounds, you�re "shootin", not "hunting".
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<br>... Silver Bullet
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<br>"I hunt medium range ... with moly-coated 180gr Swift Scirocco�s and 210gr Barnes-Xbt�s"
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Excellent post Silver Bullet!!!!

My 300 win mag with the 4 to 16 X 50 Schmidt & Bender PM II scope weighs 11.8lbs. After I restock it it will weigh no more then 1lb more.
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<br>I am set-up to kill deer to 650 yards and I do not use any spotter shots at all.
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<br>I have killed 3 deer in the past 4 years at 420 yards, 1 at 380 yards and several at lessor distances. All where 1 shot kills. The furthest any of the deer have gone after the shot was 30 yards.
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<br>I am a medium range hunter at this time with a self imposed limit of 650 yards. I am hopefull that I can extend that distance to 1000 yards over the next couple of years through lots of practice and some improvements to my equipment. Based on data obtained from those who do just that (kill deer to 1000 yards) I beleive I may be capable of killing deer to 1000 yards. I am now and always have considered myself a hunter. My methods are now more varied, thats the only difference.
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<br>I still shoot doves at 40 yards or less and I don't generally need more then 15 shells to obtain my 12 bird limit. I have shot and killed doves to 60 yards but I considered that more luck then anything else. I also enjoy pheasant, chukar and quail hunting over my Brit. Most shots are less then 30 yards.
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<br>See, I shoot close range as well,
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don

SB,
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<br>Howdy neighbor I don't htink we've met yet...
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<br>I have two fully custom rifles that both weigh under 16lbs "all-up" and I know in the right hands they can shoot 10" groups at 1000 yards. I have shot 2" groups at 500 with one of them and I am working up loads for the other.. she might or might not be able to go huntng this season...
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<br>With the first rifle I have a self imposed range of 650 yards... I have shot 8.5" groups at 700 yards but the ballistics ( ft. lbs) arn't there at that range.
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<br>I think you have been mislead about the "spotter" rounds. The use behind most of them is to insure all conditions were read right not so much a "walk-in" type situation.
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<br>I also have a diferent take on knowing where your shot is going...
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<br>I have seen first hand many guys with big guns.. do this scenerio....
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<br>Hey John.. yeah Bob .. how far you think he is.. um about 350.... what do i do he's gonna make it into the timber if I don't hurry... um hold 5" over him and a foot in front....
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<br>Long range hunter or short range hunter...????
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<br>could he make one shot one kill.. maybe with some luck... but the majority of the SRH's will accept that kind of action while hunting.. Until I was educated both self and with the help of many LRH's here and on the LRH site I will no longer accept that action as tolerable...
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<br>Any LRH ( I associate with ) would automatically know how many clicks to spin and would wait for the animal to stop or relax before pulling the trigger....
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<br>When I guide here in Wyo.. All my hunters with shoot with me the day they arrive... I will take them to my range and chrony the rifle and ammo they shoot.. I then use my ballistics program to make the drop chart for them and we both get a copy.... very little guess work in the field....!!
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<br>I hunt on all public land and I more than likely can tell you everything that is going on with in my sight ability while looking throught the 12X Steiners and my 20 - 70 X spotting scope.. I, nor would any of the guys I know fire a spotter in to an unknown area.
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<br>I'm glad to see that you find some of the info. here usefull, these guys have alot to share.. thats what it's here for, to learn... even though you don't agree with the principles of what they/we do at least you find somthing that may make you a better/ more educated hunter.
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<br>See IFID's no hard recruiting or pressure to be a LRH....
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I will never have the skills to LRH (or LRS) and am rather against it on balance mainly because of what seems to me to be the virtual impossibility of tracking a wounded animal, and the time of flight if the animal takes one step as you pull the trigger, but it does occur to me that the comparisons with shooting a grazing cow are somewhat misplaced.
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<br>After all if we can sneak to fifty yards of a standing or resting deer without disturbing it we will take the shot without whistling first to get it going. And we will be pretty proud of our stalking skills, and rightly so. They will have been learned over a process of years.
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<br>You can equate the development of those abilities with the development of the LRH shooters ability to make hits at such long ranges. The skills are not the same but the learning process, in each case, is laborious and lengthy. And it is a shot at a target that is standing still in both cases.
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<br>There is the difference that if the deer takes off at close range you can still, if you are good, shoot and hit it and if you only wound you have a chance of finding it. At long range forget it, and while our forum's LRH shooters have sufficient self possession not to pull trigger if the deer is moving, there is no way to prevent that accidental step-off as the trigger is pulled.

Miki,
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<br>I agree there is the reality and chance that a motionless animal will move. The same chance that a "stalked" animal will become spooked. Both LRH and SRH take that risk.... which is a greater risk can be debated forever... There are circumstance that are pros and cons in both situations...
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<br>The advantage of hunting LR is that you typically have a partner..... therefore your tracking abilities and what happens after the shot/hit are more detailed... therefore a lost animal rarely if ever happens....
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<br>I agree 100% in your comparison between the skills learned in stalking and the skills that it takes to be an accomplished shot at long Ranges.. it take a very long time to master both....
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<br>The accidental step off can happen in both situations.. that is the risk both hunters take.... the only difference is that in LRH there is usually just a step in SRH there is usually a leap or jump....

Wyo Whisper
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<br>No doubt having a partner does make a difference when you try to track a wounded animal, two heads and two sets of eyes are better than one, I did not take that into consideration, but I would comment (1) that things look vastly different when you get up close, and just because your partner saw the direction the deer dashed off in doesn't mean the scene will look anything like that after you have walked more than half a mile to the site (2) frankly, the mindset that develops the skills to LRH is not at all the same as the mindset that develops tracking ability !!!
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<br>I would speculate, and it is pure speculation, we will never have statistics, that a highly skilled stalker (and there are about as few of them as there are highly skilled LRHs) will wound fewer deer and catch up with more that he does wound than an equally skilled LRH, notwithstanding a partner, it's just the nature of the different circumstances.
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<br> I am neutral in all this, I have no LRH ability and no stalking ability !!! And I admire both qualities very much.

Miki,When I LRH I do so with 3 people....When a shot is taken at a deer.One person shoot's and two people spot.IF the deer run's one set of BIG EYE's is let on the spot the deer was standing.And the other person follow's the animal.IF a deer get's OUT OF SIGHT.We know the EXACT spot where the deer was standing when the shot was taken....

Boyd
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<br>In between looking at this forum I have been off on ebay bidding on VSR rifle iron sights - very short range !!
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<br>With two partners you are undoubtedly reducing the possibilities that things can go wrong to a minumum, but it does begin to sound more like a military than a sporting operation. But a traditional deer drive is even more so, and those have been OK for hundreds of years.
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<br>I think most of my uneasiness is not what you guys do but the perception of too many hunters, put into them by thirty years of gun magazine BS about magnum rifles, that they can switch the scope up to 9x and sucessfully bang away at game as far as they can see it. And lots will try offhand.
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Miki,I get your point....People would be BANGING away if we were here or not......What we are trying to do is teach people that if they are gonna do it,do it the right way.I have seen people shoot at running deer at 500 yard's with a 30-06 with a 4 power tasco scope.You can't blame that on us.If someone want's to learn the RIGHT way I will help them.....You need the RIGHT equiptment and lot's of pratice.If someone can't understand that,how is it OUR fault...........

Miki,
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<br>I agree, there are a LOT of slob hunters out there that "try" to hit game at a lot further distances then they should ever attempt.
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<br>I will add to what Boyd has said and I have no doubt he will confirm what I am about to type. When long shots are taken on deer (as Boyd said) 2 guys "spot" for the shooter (in his case). Once the bullet arrives and IF the deer runs off 1 guy holds on the spot while the other tracks where the deer is going. What Boyd didn't mention is that once the deer is down and can be seen through the spotting scope then the person that goes over to the deer has a radio, as does the person looking at the deer with the spotting scope. The person looking through the spotting scope (at the deer) can then direct the person walking over to the downed deer.
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<br>I am not sure if you have seen or hunted the Hills of Central PA or not but our deer season is in either late November or Early December (this year our rifle season starts Dec 2nd). The first day is always the Monday after Thanksgiving. The leaves are all off the hardwood trees. From a hilltop vantage point a person can often see for miles. Even if the deer is shot from hilltop to hilltop it can't get away after the shot because of the fact that the trees have no leaves and it is open enough to watch the deer run off and die (if it runs off). There is often snow on the ground as well which makes it even easier to track the deer (using a spotting scope).
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<br>When the long range guys say the never lost a deer,,,,the above explains why.
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<br>Hope this makes it more clear to understand.
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don

Boyd
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<br>The blame is not yours, it properly falls on the gun writers who want to please the factory advertisers in the gun mags by pushing their new stuff. You guys unfairly get tarred with the same brush.
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<br>Someone kindly invited me to Williamsport the 7th and 8th, not this tiime, Middletown NY gun show is the 7th and a family dinner party the 8th.
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<br>Just for the record I think I might revert to the .303 Savage - it fits my shooting skills. When I say revert I mean revert from the 1925 .270, a bit too modern for me, what was the title of that movie, Back to the Future.
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<br>Miki

I'm the one that gave you the invite to Willimsport.....There are also match's on the 21st and 22nd of September and the 12th and 13th of Oct.If you can come one of those date's let me know......I might even have a gun you could shoot..You or anybody else is more than welcome to come and see what it's all about......Let me know.....

This thread reminds me of people who dye their hair red, or pierce noses and eyes and then get mad when people stare at them. It seems like all the preponents of 1000 yrd shooting know each other and shoot together. So for whose benifit was the post started ? If all of you were trying to impress us it failed. All you did by patting each other on the back and taking up for each other was make responsible hunters mad. If you wanted to draw attention to yourselves it worked. You need to get over your snobbish attitude regarding those with enough common sense and courage to disagree with you on this forum, and think about what they say. Save your condensending comments about me being a new poster. It doesn,t matter at all how long I've been here, wrong is wrong. It amazes me to think you all could make the statements you have and not expect to be called what you are, I'm to old to be PC, I won't roll over and kiss your ass and tell you all how wonderful you are at LRH. Don't worry I am not going to end this with some sillyassed saying.......max

Hi Max,
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<br>Let me be the first to welcome your snobbish attitute to the thread
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<br>As to who is helped - I am for one. I now have a self imposed limit of 650 yards and after hunting with Boyd and talking to him, and others that kill animals at 1000 plus yards I see where it really won't take that much more for me to accomplish that.
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<br>If you don't like or have the skill to kill animals to 1000 yards, hey, thats ok by me. I am not going to "force" anybody to hunt in a manner they don't want to hunt. That I leave, to the individual. A couple of years ago I killed a doe at 75 yards - not exactly long range - is it?
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<br>I enjoy talking to and learning from people that have killed animals at 1000 plus yards.
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<br>I would suggest if you don't like what is being said on this thread, don't respond.
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<br>Your negativity may rub off on others. I always try to be a very possitive person.
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<br>Have a good one in spite of your snobbish attitude,
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<br>Don

Don, stop, you're cracking me up.
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<br>You're a positive person? Stop, for a minute, while I swat that flying pig.