Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting PA antler restrictions

Belong to a camp in bald eagle state forest right around rt 80 in pa. Since antler restrictions and coincidentally other camps dying off etc.. We are shooting bigger bucks than ever. They are getting a chance to live!


Both the best buck either has shot for the one in 28 years at cabin, the other in 43 years at cabin. We never shot bucks like this since the cabin was built in 1928.

Nice Bucks!!!!


Amazing what can happen when they get to live 3 or 4 years and have a chance to mature.

Before AR it was estimated that almost 80% of the Buck harvest was Deer with their first set of antlers.

No question that average antler size/mass and body weights of bucks, has increased over the past 10 years. That's how it is now where I've hunted since my teens (now part of WMU 3A). Been almost 50 years since I was a teenager.

Far too many PA hunters have no friggin' clue about much of anything related to deer management. But they have lots of BS opinions and are happy to share them.

No matter how ridiculous they are? Insurance companies could care less about deer numbers and have never been a factor in deer herd reduction issues. They just raise rates when deer/auto collisions increase.

The (deer) Herd Reduction issue was pressed by biologists, crop farmers, foresters, nurserymen and homeowners, all of whom were tired of having too many deer in PA by the late 90s.

"We had big bucks years ago, before ARs". Well, no chit?

Point of the discussion, is that we've never had the number of good bucks that we have now. Talking about bucks, primarily those that have now made it to 2.5 years, sporting spreads of 16" or better, with some decent mass. And body weights have also increased with that bit of extra age.

Some of that also relates to fewer deer overall than we had by 2000, meaning there is a bit less competition for over winter browse. And that eventually results in larger, healthier deer of both sexes.

Smaller deer herd statewide these days, much nicer bucks.

Still more than enough deer around for all but those who still blubber about seeing 50 deer a day back when we had too damn many deer in many places - and now continue to whine about "no deer".

Hunting license decline is a national trend and one that PA has begun to recover from over the past several years. Sales over the past three license years are up a bit each year in PA.

A decline in license sales was inevitable, given that our WWII era folks are mostly gone and their children are now in their mid 60s. Those two groups were responsible for the huge numbers of hunters we had in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.

And if we don't make an effort to recruit more kids away from their video games, soccer and other interests, a decline will continue in the ranks of hunters.

With regards to the kids that is one thing I would like to see changed. Let a junior hunter 15 and under be allowed to shoot a Deer that does not make the 3 or 4 point requirement. Perhaps it would be a small incentive fot getting them out and interested.

With school many juniors have limited days to Deer hunt. Let them also use their antlerless tag for the entire two weeks.

Id not worry much about the kids, the courts will see they get more time, right dubePA ?

Juniors do that already up here, and I thinkbits great.

One of the bigger problems I see than Antler Restrictions (I like that Jr's are still allowed to shoot any buck over 3")

is the rampant filling of other people's tags when the person doesn't hunt

Around here there is very kittle private peoperty open to hunting unless you know the family or are family. There are LOTS of gamelands. But, and as an example, last year we drove by one gamelands, that is approximately 640 cares and counted 62 vehicles With the majority of them being from out of state. We seriously need to revamp our jon reaident license process

Wait a minute, are you saying that such things as carrying capacity could have been a factor in Pa's deer management program. I call BS we all know it was the insurance Cos. and PETA and THE UN trying to stop hunting to decrease costs and control the worlds food supply, I mean. Isnt that why the Game Commission releasing cougars iinto the State?

Im originally from NWPA and live in GA now. I go home every year to hunt with my dad. Really I mainly sit with him and help him count points. We are hunting on private land in Mercer County, but its only 200 acres and all around it is huntable. Definately, the hunting is much better since AR.

Last year for example, we saw 6 bucks and 3 does by 9 o'clock. He killed a 125" 8 point.

2 years before he had an opportunity at daylight at a 125"+ buck.

Two years before that he killed a 120+ 21" wide 8 point by 7:30. We sat the rest of the day and saw 11 bucks and close to 50 deer. Im sure some/many of those deer came back through, but still it was an amazing day.

This land had never produced a good buck since it was bought in 1989, and never had anyone seen as many bucks as we are seeing now.

Someone posted a link last year to a buck contest in Meadville at Community Chevrolet. I looked at it and there must have been 20 deer that were in the 140's. I hunted up in and around that county and have been to that big buck contest and have never seen that many truly big deer. I agree Crawford is a county that always had good deer, but now it is amazing the quality and quantity of large bucks being produced.

Another example in the mountains of Forest County. My dads friend is a taxidermist. He sent me a pic of a buck killed up there last year. Was a wide ten that would score close to 160". Guy that killed it said there was another buck with him that was bigger. This is a county where the joke was always about a Forest County 11 point being a spike. Were big deer killed up there in the past...yes, but very, very, very few. Ive seen a couple bucks like the one mentioned above killed just in the last couple years up there. I personally saw a rub two years ago when I was home visiting a friend, and it was as big as my thigh.

PA has good genetics, but now they are getting a chance to grow. When I was a kid, my first year hunting was in 81. I saw well over 100 deer the first day of buck season.....but not 1 buck in all of that.

Did they kill too many does in parts of PA during the last decade...yes in parts they did, but not every where. Are there parts of the state with very few deer....yes there are, but they will come back. Hunters are not flocking to the mountains anymore so pressure is down and they will come back.

Thats my 2cents and worth about what you paid for it.

JimD.

Releasing cougars(the four legged kind) into the state is a running joke but I have to question the sudden explosion if coyote populations in the last 20 years. It definitely could be a coincidence that it just happened at this point of history, but maybe not to. With the overabundance of deer in the 90's it could be easy to see how they moved in on a readily a liable food source but the timing is suspicious with game commissions simultaneous efforts to reduce the herd, that and the fact they have been shown in multiple studies to be a sort of hybrid.

Mm

AR has been working in TX for over 10 years IIRC. I know good and well our deer are much better now and in 10 years if they were going downhill, they would have already.

Hardly any spikes anymore. And I don't see many 18 month old deer that are not 6-8 points and 10-13 inches appx wide.

To me thats impressive.

Over the last 5 years or so I've shot one old spike, and a wide 18 inch 7 point, and needed to shoot anotehr 7, a 6 and a 4 point, all 15 plus inches and 3 years old appx.

I've seen the largest deer we've ever seen here. And the oldest. My first bowkill off the place was a 6.5 year old 12 point. Last year was a 5.5 year old 13 point.

2.5 year old 16 inch wide 8 points are the norm here now.

Before that you were lucky to see a deer much less a buck older than 1.5.

YMMV, but for our deer herd its been the very best thing out there.

FWIW our antler regs are spike on at least one side. Or 13 inches inside spread or more.

And its cut way down on folks shooting 2-3 inch long spikes that are yearling deer in dry years.

FWIW the last group of deer I saw up at Moms house, were 9 bucks. Of those bucks one was a yearling spike, about 4 -5 inch pencils. One was a 6 point about 10 inches wide. The rest were all legal bucks by our rules.

All this theory of kill the best and the trash ends up breeding sure is not showing itself here.

The bucks are better today but the deer are a lot fewer.

Sooo, you are saying the GC definitely stocked Coyotes, the GC may have stocked Coyotes, or Coyotes just wondered in? Which one, or a combination of all three?

Or you really don't know, but one can always insinuate they did????



Coyotes have been slowly invading the NE part of the USA for probably over 80 years. NY supposedly saw/killed the first around 1930.

A little NE Coyote history:

http://www.nature.com/news/rise-of-the-coyote-the-new-top-dog-1.10635

I'm saying it's suspicious, but that is all and believe me I'm not the tinfoil hat type. How out of the ordinary would it be for some biologists to release a species into an ecosystem to control the population of another species. I'm nit saying my cousin Pete shot one with a collar that said property of PAGC, and that I know they did it, just saying it's not an abnormal thing for a group of biogists to do and it wouldn't surprise me. By the way I know a bunch of guys In my area that would rather hunt coyotes than deer and do t care where they came from but are glad they are here now, they are fun to hunt.


Mm

People looooove to jump on the GC. Have they made mistakes in my estimation? Yes. I.E. Stocked Pheasants were eventually the death blow to our once abundant wild ones. Too many Doe tags? No Doubt, but we kept buying and using them. The Northern Tier allotment is currently sold out again. No Deer in the Northwoood, but hunters keep buying up every one and most will use it if possible. Are they extremely hesitant to admit mistakes? Seems to be that way.

Used to be the politicians kept their hands off the GC. Hunters were not complaining because we had lots of Deer, Pheasants, Grouse, Rabbits, Squirrels.
Things have changed and wildlife just isn't as abundant as many hunters would like. Many are unhappy. Politicians looking for votes would jump with joy if they could come out and say the GC stocked Coyotes and they are on the side of the hunters and are going to do something about it. Ehhh? They haven't. Why? Because they can't prove the GC did and believe me if they could they would. Bingo for now.


Addition: The way things are today, seasons have to be justified i.e. even a study was required to have a porcupine season. Some rogue group of GC employes introducing Coyotes on the sly? There are some good people in the GC and they would have it out there.

In this political climate I think it highly unlikely that any politician that wants to win office would align themselves publicly with hunters and use them as a platform for campaigning. Guns are evil didnt you know;).

Tell that to the ones who campaign for 2nd amendment rights, have the backing of the NRA and the hunting community. You just may be tin-foil.

I think a lot of the coyote numbers are just fluctuations in the ecosystem.

in the mid 90's there were a TON of squirrels around my parents house...then we saw more hawks. then less hawks, and the squirrels are coming back in numbers.

same thing with coyotes and food sources

Used to be-long time ago-the Pa GC recognized the adverse effect the Hawks and Owls had on the small game and encouraged hunters to kill them. Those old boys did a pretty good job and kept them in check. Didn't wipe them out, just kept them down some. Now they fall under the umbrella of the GC and they must protect and watch over them.

One Owl or Hawk today in the minds of most environmental groups is worth every Grouse, Pheasant and Rabbit in the entire State. The more the merrier in some eyes.

Things are kind of screwed up.