Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Berger bullets for elk?

Interesting comments. Not that they need my endorsement but I agree 100%.

I loaded some .308 rounds for a guy last year, for elk hunting. Loaded up both Partitions and TTSXs; the TTSXs shot small groups so he used those. He shot a nice 6-pointer broadside, at under 100 yards, and through the heart.

He came by the other night with his fired brass and asked me to load up some more, but he wanted only Partitions this time. He showed me the TTSX, recovered from under the hide on the off-side. The only way I could tell it had been fired was by the rifling marks. So it neither expanded, nor exited on a broadside elk at under 100 yards, which is one of the main reasons people say they like TSXs (two holes, blood trail, and all that).

Is that "bullet failure" if it's recovered from a dead elk?

Smokepole,

You got pics of that bullet?

Dink

Smokepole, If you dont mind me askin', what weight/velocity were those .308 TTSX's you loaded?

I have a decent load for the 160 grain TTSX that meanders along at a tad under 2700fps. There's more steam in the boiler room, but haven't found a good enough load at higher velocities yet.

African Big Game are different. As you know I'm sure, their vitals are in a different place than North American game. While still in the chest cavity they are further forward and low which just so happens to be a location where they are protected by heavy leg and shoulder bone. If you shoot most of them behind the shoulder, more often than not, you'll be in guts. Done it myself on Oryx here in NM. Buddy of mine lost one by not shooting it in the shoulder straight up from the front leg.

I'm not in some kind of fantasy land that a Berger VLD will penetrate 2" femur bone of a 700 pound or larger animal. I do know that John Burns recommends shooting the Scapula on NA big game with the VLD. Watch any of his videos using the same .264 Winchester/140 VLD combo. The VLD will penetrate 3" and do massive damage to the internals. They drop instantly. My bull was shot with the 140 VLD and absolutely NO BONE was hit going in or out. That's the reason for the nice hole as a wound channel, but still the bullet lost everything inside the jacket.

As Mule Deer wrote, the Berger was not designed as a hunting bullet, but as people used them and saw the dramatic terminal effects, they realized how good they really were.

Many products have been manufactured for a purpose then found to work great for another, unintended purpose.

Great comments here. Pretty cool topic.

How do most of you think the Nosler ABLR's will stack up to the Bergers? They seem to shed a whole lotta weight while retaining a decent sized base?

[bleep], will these work?

Only if you run 'em through a walnut stocked 7x57 with a Lyman Alaskan for glass, preferably a fixed 4X. Can't have too much new stuff happening at once, it upsets many terribly.

Mule Deer's article "Berger Bullets on Big Game"

Well. We agree on that.



Guess I missed where anyone has claimed to use the �only perfect all-around hunting bullet ever made�. But I agree there are many excellent bullet choices other than VLDs (which I think might be one of the best for extended ranges, even if I choose not to use them for the ranges at which I�m willing to shoot). Moreover, I happily use several of those other bullets, as do my hunting buddies, and they have yet to disappoint.



I find it uproariously laughable every time you imply that first-hand experience is a necessary factor in the human learning experience. If that were the case we would all be living in caves and communicating via grunts and other primitive pre-language sounds. Fortunately most of us are quite capable of learning from the experiences of others via a variety of means of communication.

What business are you in again? Oh, yeah � providing information to and educating others via what are (to them) second-hand experiences. [Still laughing.]

I here what you're saying. You go to college to learn knowledge that others have gleaned, even at the Masters level. At a higher level though, your analogy fails you. You get a Ph.D awarded to you based on YOUR research, efforts, and findings. I'm not aware of anyone having a Ph.D in "riflery", but if there was such a thing, Barsness would be its first recipient.

Nope. To answer the other question, never chronographed it. It was a 168 with a middle-of-the-road load of R-15 out of a 24" barrel.

Nope, you have 500 duds. Good fer marmots at best

The bullets in the pic are the source of a lot of debate/hate/myth/lies... Usually guys like one or the other, hell I cant decide what ones I like the best so I shoot them both. Most of my guns have a berger/barnes combo to choose from.

rosco1, how do you like those LRX's? The mfr claims they are softer and open more reliably. Thanks!

Heck I killed a couple coyotes with those too!

At first I was just pissed that I had to re do all my MRX loads..But the LRX is a great bullet, I've never had a tipped barnes not open up (that I know of), and I dont think that will change with the LRX.So far I've only killed three head of game with them and I actually caught one last year in an elk,(never caught an MRX) and they do appear to open up wider than other X-bullets.

Another note on them is the BC is well over what they list them as, which has been the case with a lot of barnes bullets i've worked with.

What have you figured out as your BC for the 145 LRX out of curiosity?

Have you tried the 168?

I'm using .531 as my 145 BC in shooter I will usually adjust velocity over BC to match things up, but like i said every barnes i've shot at LR needs bumped up, so I adjust BC to what i'm seeing. I havent really worked with 168's.

I never suggested that people can't learn from first-hand experience, and in fact all of us do so all of our lives.

Liker JB says, no bullet is perfect for all occasions, or words to that effect, and I agree completely. I just find that, based on the experiences of others with VLDs (both good and bad), the information provided by the manufacturer, and my experiences with other bullets, the other bullets provide more of what I'm looking for in hunting bullets. And so far the ones I use have worked very, very well.

One dud was the Barnes XLC. Although they were very accurate in my 7mm RM, after one experience with them on antelope the rest got used for target practice.

John I couldn't agree more....part of the reason it has been so hard to pry me from Partitions.

I was not directing my comments directly at Bergers, just commenting that RC's 140's did not show the kind of wound channel I would have expected in light of what I have seen from other bullets at similar distances on the same animals....my comments would be the same with about any match bullet, including Sierra's, Hornady's, etc.....and no I have never fired a Berger at game...I will leave that up to you guys who are professional bullet testers.

I can understand using some of these as specialized tools of LR experts.

Short of doing a bunch of cull hunts in Africa, or donkey shoots in Australia, it takes a long time to fully understand what a bullet weight/design is capable of under a variety of circumstances and different animals; the reason I do little jumping around myself and lean more towards stuff of sturdier construction.

I think we are both of that age that we can recall why bullets like Partitions, BBC's, TBBC's, TSX's, etc., were originated and designed in the first place.....high velocity cartridges tore up some thin jacketed C&C bullets that did not penetrate well ; squished flat against vertebrae's and shoulders, expanded poorly, and failed to penetrate properly and otherwise get the job done....this even happened with moderate velocity cartridges on heavy animals. Generally the culprit is some thin jacketed something or other that simply did not do what the shooter intended....not up to the job.

Even such newer things as the Barnes has been through so many changes a guy can hardly keep track...when they first came out I would not use them....one look and you knew there would be expansion problems...and there were. I'd use and trust them today, but not on a bet when they first came out....it only took 20-something years for them to finally get it right. Same with BT's which a lot of guys like....but sifting through which one's have been built tougher these days and which one's have not is a daunting task...


When it comes to new wonder bullets for hunting, color me a carping skeptic.