Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire Faith vs. Works

The "Christ as God" post has been hijacked enough-and I am a chief offender. Here is a proper place to post thoughts about the debate that has hijacked it.

To me, there are two main schools of thought in Christianity. Within these are many offshoots, but the main debate centers around: What gets you saved? Is it faith alone or must one combine good works with that faith?

My belief, and coincidentally the accurate one ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ), is that faith alone accesses God's grace and gains one entrance to Heaven (salvation). Here is a key point also, and one I think is NOT tertiary to the argument: Once saved, one can never be lost. Once saved, always saved.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Eph. 2:8,9

Confession doesn't save. Baptism doesn't save. Jesus saves-through His gift of faith.

Have at it boys and girls.

If yer lookin' fer an argument, ya came ta the wrong place. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

har.

Oops, I did it again. I hijacked the other thread again. Oh, it's so hard to be good.

Well said, Fish.

Can someone really have faith without works?

I'm with you 100%. We are saved by God's grace due to faith in Jesus Christ. There is no "work" we could possibly do to earn that grace or salvation.

However, I'm also a pretty strong believer that saying you have faith doesn't necessarily prove it to be true. I tend to believe that if someone truely has faith in Jesus Christ they will make an attempt to follow his teachings.

I can say I have faith that if I plant some peas they will grow. But if I never actually plant the peas, do I really have faith? If I really have faith wouldn't I go ahead and plant the peas?

If I really have faith in Jesus Christ and believe that through His blood I can be saved, won't I make some effort to follow him?

Obviously no man is perfect and we all fall short. No one will be able to live all of Christ's teachings perfectly. But if someone is living their life entirely in contradiction to the teachings of Christ with no effort to change, yet proclaims "I have faith, I am saved", I have a difficut time believing they truely have faith.

Again - don't be confused. I don't think works will save someone. I just can't imagine someone with faith not showing their "fruit" through works.

As a side note: Just thinking about this - are faith and works sometimes connected? Who was the Old Testament prophet who told the guy to go jump in the Jordan river and his leprosy would be healed? Was it jumping in the river that healed him or was it faith that jumping in the river would work that did?

There are also examples of Christ telling people to do certain things and then being healed - was it through their faith in Him or was it due to obeying and doing what he told them to do that their "faith made them whole"?

There is a difference between intellectual acknowledgement and faith. I think Eddie R is correct in what his understanding of scripture is. No doubt saved people can drift and get screwed up like the prodigal. But for my part, I don't want to be one of them because they will eventually have to ask themselves if they were ever really saved if they don't love Christ. The 4 soils come to mind here as does the Bood of James.

Long

The go jump in the river dude was a Namaan, a favourite of the King of Syria. The prophet was Elisha. He didn't even talk to Namaan, just sent his servant to say "Go wash in the Jordan."
Works don't save us. God saves us. Works however are the evidence of our faith. As James says.


We need faith first, but then we need to live our faith. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />
Not always as easy to live as it is to say.

That's it in a nutshell, my friend.

Isn't the evidence itself a work? If you believe that you must show evidence of your faith, lest you aren't or never were saved, then aren't you believing that their must be works?

"I can say I have faith that if I plant some peas they will grow. But if I never actually plant the peas, do I really have faith? If I really have faith wouldn't I go ahead and plant the peas?"

You have to tell me whether you have faith that the peas will grow. God knows whether you have that faith regardless of whether you plant them or not. Faith in them growing and actually planting them are two seperate things. I can have complete faith that the peas will grow without ever having planted anything. Then again, I may completely lack the faith that they will grow and plant them just to demonstrate that they won't-regardless of what I say. This is a different scenario from that of the Bible though.

"1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"

1 John 4:1-2, KJV

I submit that the greatest evidence that you are saved is the faith that God gave you. People will believe what they will. Thus, one who has faith, has no need of "evidence" that they are saved, as their faith is their evidence and they know they are saved.

Ethan Edwards,

Do you beleive Jesus? He says folks will talk about that which fills their hearts. If someone is not talking about Jesus, they don't have Jesus. If you are saved, others will know.

But then again, He only said that once. Therefore it must not be true.

Maybe I didn't explain it well.

I don't think men are saved by works. There are no works we are capable of that would justify us being saved. We just can't do it. We have to have faith in Jesus Christ.

But I can't imagine someone truely having faith in Jesus Christ without works showing up somewhere.

Not as evidence of their being saved or having faith. Just as a RESULT of their having faith.

I simply can't imagine someone truely having faith in Jesus Christ and not making some attempt to follow his teachings - which would result in some works taking place.

Again - being saved isn't a result of works nor are works needed as evidence of faith. I just can't imagine there being one without the other.

I both understand and respect your position, Eddie.