Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing How To Determine Whether Bore Is Corroded

greetings,
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<br>i usually post at shooters.com, but have since discovered this most wonderful site.
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<br>i have a relatively new ruger m77 II magnum in .416 rigby that has been fired approximately 30 times, and that has been subjected to a full one-shot/one-clean regimen for 20 shots.
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<br>after a recent range session, i noticed what looked like 'strips' of corrosion/rust running alongside the bore grooves in the middle-section of the barrel. a further regimen of vigorous shrubbing with shooters choice (20 passes x4)(using a bore tech guide and rod), along with maybe 15 passes with jb-paste/kroil (x2), failed to remove the offending strips (although the patches at the end of the cleaning session came out 'clean' without any hint of brown residue).
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<br>i do not have a bore-scope, and was wondering whether there was any way to determine whether my bore is indeed corroded/rusted, short of returning the rifle to ruger.
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<br>many thanks for any advice and thoughts.
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<br>te
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I am just wondering if you can feel any change in the way the patches feel when passing by that spot? I would imagine if there is corrosion and a rough spot then you would feel it as a tight patch was passed through. Although I can't imagine a rifle shot that little and looked after well would develop any corrosion, unless there had been some old cordite loads put through it, or somehow it sat with moisture in it. Have you had it since new?

I'd bet you're looking at copper build up, which should require a specific solvent to remove...

My guess is that Andr� has the right idea. Why it is only in the middle section of the bore is interesting though. Have you tried a copper solvent or brushing with a bronze bore brush?

Try some Barnes CR-10. I bet you'll get some blueing on the patch. badger.

andre, partsman, badger, tlee,
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<br>many thanks for taking the time to respond.
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<br>your suggestions are good; i will give my boretech copper removing solution (or perhaps the sweets or barnes solutions) a try before returning the rifle to ruger.
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<br>the rifle was purchased new last fall (summer 2001 build date) through a davidsons' dealer, and has been stored in a 'golden-rodded' and 'desicated' gun safe.
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<br>i use boretech bronze brushes and brass jags, and have, in fact, noticed slight resistance in the middle section of the barrel while cleaning the bore with the boretech borestix.
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<br>i will post my results after the copper cleaning session.
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<br>good shooting.
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<br>te

Welcome to 24hourcampfire, TE. I, too, suggest you try Sweet's, CR-10, etc. I like to push something white down the bore, then shine a strong light into the bore. This will show any copper fouling quite well.
<br> I understand that's a first clss rifle rifle. E

greetings, eremicus,
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<br>good to chat with you again.
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<br>thanks for the copper cleaning/detection suggestion.
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<br>imho, the ruger m77 magnum in .416 rigby is one of the better values for a dgr, and is nearly perfect in terms of an african hunt (crf, integral quarter rib/express sights, integral scope base, superb 3-position safety, reinforced recoil lug-metal base-plate and cross-bolt system, and the use of low-pressure/beltless rounds). the fit and finish is outstanding, and rifle comes stocked in superior-grade circassian walnut.
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<br>the only possible downsides to the rifle that i can see are recoil (caused by the barrel-heavy design, but addressed with a proper recoil pad and perhaps the installation of a mercury insert), small front bead (which is easily replaceable with a larger bead from necg), and weight (which, on the positive-side, actually helps from a recoil perspective).
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<br>all of this assumes, of course, that i in fact have a copper build-up problem, as opposed to a corrosion problem.
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<br>good shooting.
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<br>te

Thomas: Not having one to examine I have to enquire if there has been anything silversoldered on the exterior of the barrel at that point such as a barrel band, forward recoil lug or the quarter rib. If so you may be looking at a scale build up caused when the hard solder (braze) was done. I think it would take a lot of sustained heat to cause this in a barrel that heavy but if it is scale it should be considered a factory defect as there are ways to prevent that occuring. I don't know if there is a cure for it. The problem being localized towards the mid-point makes me wonder. Charlie Sisk might have a better informed opinion on the problem than I can provide. besto

i appreciate the thought, stocker,
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<br>actually, the rifle does indeed have a barrel-banded front sling swivel right around the mid-point of the barrel. i would suppose that the front sling swivel was brazed/soldered onto barrel.
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<br>the ruger 77 magnum has a somewhat different set-up internally, insofar as the barrel is concerned. the barrel has what appears to be two integral quarter-ribs; a top rib upon which sits the express sights, and a bottom rib which attaches to a recoil-lugged-metal-plate that is flat bedded to the bottom of the stock.
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<br>in short, i believe that only the barrel-banded front sling swivel is brazed/soldered onto the barrel.
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<br>in any case, i will try the copper remover later this week to see if this will alleviate the situation. if not, the rifle should be covered under either ruger's implied warranty, or davidson's no-questions guarantee.
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<br>good shooting.
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<br>te

Thomas: I worked on a M77/458 about 20 years ago. Sounds like the bedding system hasn't changed at all. luck with your cleaning attempt.

TE. Gun Tests magazine did a write up on that rifle, once or twice, in the last year. They were impressed. E

If it were mine,I would go to Wally World and get a package of Rem.Bore Clean which is an organic abrasive paste and wrap a patch around a brush,slobber the paste on it real good and give it 40 strokes. I would then replace the patch and repeat the process with more paste. Then I would clean the barrel of all residue and run of wet patch of Barnes CR-10 down the barrel and check for any metal fouling.
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<br>I'm betting you have a bad case of metal fouling. This should get it out.

thanks, cheaha,
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<br>well, i spent nearly four hours tonight, but still could not remove the raised copper fouling/corrosion(?).
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<br>i used the following procedure: boretech copper remover - 5 wet patches/wait 15 minutes/brush 20 times/dry patches x4; kroil; jb paste - 30 passes; shooters choice - 5 wet patches/brush 20 times/5 wet patches; kroil; rem oil.
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<br>i will log-in to brownells, purchase a bottle of barnes or sweets, and give it another go.
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<br>cheers, and good shooting.
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<br>te

e,
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<br>you are correct. the september 2000 edition of gun tests magazine did a review on the ruger 77 magnum in .375 h&h, and the november 2000 edition did a review on her sister rifle in .416 rigby. favourable reviews can also be found in the december 2001 issue of guns & ammo magazine, and in e. matunas' book, 'big game cartridges & rifles' (lyman, 1993).
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<br>although i am quite fond of nearly all ruger products, and believe their firearms to be well designed, constructed and priced, i have had, of late and understandably, second thoughts about investment cast parts (i am assuming that ruger uses investment cast barrel billets).
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<br>as in the case of another poster on shooters.com, i am now of the opinion that investment cast parts are actually less dense/refined compared to forged/machined parts. hence, the fouling problems that i have encountered on the ruger 77 magum, and the metal fatigue that i have experienced on a ruger 1-h and vaquero. indeed, other rifles that i have which feature pre-stressed high grade machined chrome-moly receivers and barrels rarely foul and require very little maintenance.
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<br>that said, i am still of the opinion that the ruger 77 magnum provides tremendous value for the money, and contains all of the features that one would need for a dangerous game hunt (hopefully, in the near future).
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<br>cheers, and good shooting.
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<br>te
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Had the oportunity to go through the Ruger factory back in the early eighties.Barrel blanks were not cast.Regards,Frank.

TE. If you check Frank DeHaas's book, Bolt Action Rifles, he speaks very well of Rugers.
<br> BTW, Sako makes their one piece bolts exactly the same way. No one ever calls Sako's inferior to anyone.
<br> Ruger actions have been proofed at 160,000 psi.
<br> JJHack, our well respected African PH, says Rugers and Winchesters are the only rifles he has never seen fail in the field. He's seen about 6000 critters taken.
<br> You've been given some good advice about copper removal. Hang in there. E

Thomas, have you cleaned that thing out to 45 Cal yet? badger.

thanks, e.
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<br>i just ordered a bottle of sweets from brownells, and will post my results after using the same.
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<br>regarding rugers, i continue to be fond of all ruger products (including the thoughts and philosophies of the late mr. sr. for bettering america), and believe them to be extremely rugged and reliable.
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<br>that said, i do notice, however, metallurgical differences (from a lay perspective) in the quality/character of investment cast parts when compared to machined parts. this is merely from an aesthetics perspective in that it is doubtful that this would affect the actual performance of the product.
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<br>cheers.
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<br>te

badger,
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<br>i am working on it...it may be beneficial to be able to use my ruger 1-h .458 win. mag. cartridges in the ruger 77 magnum as well.
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<br>seriously, i had another go with my 1-h in .458 w.m. at the range the other day. not only were my groups smaller than the ruger .416 r., but the barrel had almost no fouling or copper deposits (there was almost no 'blue' when i used the boretech copper remover).
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<br>is barrel-making such an 'art' as to permit such wide discrepancies?
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<br>cheers.
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<br>te