Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Here's a weird question fer ya

Twenty-two, thanks but the link does not work for me. While the thread ricochets hither and yon...I guess the specific question at this point is this: In a perfect union of bore/bullet/lube, does the bullet actually ride on a film of lube thru the bore, maybe hardly touching the steel at all in a sense. Skimming, hydroplanning...something like that? I'm a little short on lube theory here.

Now Kelly, I never do that on the thone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Given proper design and elevation there's no reason it can't serve as a lookout post though....ya gotta keep an eye open for them infernal revenuers all the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Brent,

I'm up early every day.

That's a good thing, bore size bullets, shooting well for you.

D.D.,

Isn't it wonderfull having a senic view while doing the daily dutys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Makes me want to start my day all over <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.

"does the bullet actually ride on a film of lube thru the bore, maybe hardly touching the steel at all in a sense. Skimming, hydroplanning...something like that? "

In the perfect world...............?

YES !

Unbelievable accuracy, with CBs, every now and than..........
I'm replacing a "tack driver" smokeless barrel, at it's peak performance level ( 80gr Sierra BTHPMKs)...I was getting .0001" throat erosion.......... such a deal) .

Yup, goin' back into the same stupid curve, a 1 in 8" .223, properly stoked will shoot into 4", al dat long at 600yd.

Chosen case ids a rimmed #............ .225 Win, same / same .223 Rem. and a mite more cap.

Thing is , from the day I break the first shot..." gilt edged acuracy" is going away............QUICK.

A good led bullet gun, properly managed, aill last for GENERATIONS.

Best, GTC

Digital Dan:
First I need to admit that I have no education or experience in lubrication of any kind. I lack the mathematical aptitude to learn serious science or engineering. That said, Fryxell's article asserts: "In summary, bullet lube is pumped from the lube groove to the barrel surface by compression, linear acceleration and radian acceleration. In addition, lube is injected forward during the firing process, as the result of high-pressure gas leakage into the lube groove. This injection forms a floating fluid gasket around the bullet, and serves to limit gas cutting and is a kind of ballistic stop-leak. Hard lubes must first melt before they can be pumped or injected by any of these mechanisms. By incorporating moly into the mix, the lube delivered to the barrel surface can serve to prevent adhesion of future leading deposits by passivating the steel surface."
With or without molybdenum disulfide, that's a precis of Fryxell's article. The whole article may be reached from the home page of www.leverguns.com by clicking "Articles" in the right-hand column that is labeled "Directory." Once in the display of article titles, scroll down to "Articles by Contributing Writers." "Lubricating Cast Bullets," by Glen Fryxell, is listed about half way down the right hand column of "Articles by Contributing Writers." I'd be a whole lot more confident in Fryxell's article if he had cited direct physical evidence for his claims. I have no intention to restart the "Moly War," but Fryxell did mention moly in his article's final paragraph. No wonder that tribology is such an arcane business!

Oh No ! , not the Moly War.............

Much as I miss cleaning laminated fouling ( HMmmmm..is that jacket, or moly ? ) ...........I'll settle for three vinegar Windex patches, a coupla dry, and than a shot of TC 1000.
Done...........

Can't comment on moly in CB loads..........properly slimed CBs seem to squirt accuratly without the added headache of having to go " HMmmmmmm....is that BP, or moly ...? )

The stuff worked like crazy, with the hot smokeless flying pencils.....if you can call .0001" throat erosion per shot "working........." .

GTC

Man .........Typo city. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Dinner was waiting........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

.22...thanks, follow that but I'm a bona fide NON rocket scientist too. That fella Fryxell...his name seems familiar for some reason. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'll consider that question answered, and thanks for all the info Crossfire...both of you actually. I got a theory, well, not my theory mind you...'bout throat erosion. Mostly it ain't erosion. There is a direct and proportional relationship between throat wear and pressure...surprise me not that lead launchers never wear out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> The theory I adhere to is somewhat long in regards to explanation, but much more defensible than the conventional gas erosion story...or so I believe. I'll save it for a day down the road a bit. Getting late, moon is overhead and I need to bark at it awhile.

BTW, I have a date with a fella pretty handy with a knife tomorrow, dunno if he's gonna cut me or not, but If I'm AWOL for a spell...there ya go.

Party on dudes! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sheesh forget to punch the add to favorites box, and miss out on all kinds of good stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dan, confine your dates to women, bring flowers or chocolates, not knives, and I promise you will have a LOT more fun.

Good luck,
Brent

Brent, inquiring minds (mine anyway) want to know, when using bore sized bullets how did you keep from turning the barrel into a lead lined pipe? Everytime I've tried to get away with bullets sized like that it's been a disaster for leading. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
A little help for a dummy would be appreciated.

Ranch13
First, I use paper jackets on all my bullets. That's pretty straight forward. Takes about a .443" bullet with two wraps of paper to make a .450" bullet.

That said, not all is done. Putting a stiff wad behind it is a good thing. That prevents hot gases from running up the grooves between bullet and groove bottoms. When this happens, paper is burned, lead is melted, and barrels get soldered.

If you use a naked grease groove bullet, make sure you stick with the card wad (I use 0.06" Walter's fiber wads). You might also benefit from a bit of grease cookie of about the same thickness and for the same reason.

YOu might even use a naked bullet w/o grooves. Dan Theodore is doing this with some degree of success. I'm not sure of the details.

I should add to this, long range muzzleloaders shooting fast twist .45 cal bullets out to 1000 yds or more use both paper jacketed bullets and grease groove bullets that are bore sized as well. They avoid leading.

Soft is good when it ocmes to lead. I use 25:1 on up to pure lead.

Brent

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />[quote]OOPSE,

HSS for reamers. Freebore, theres some long range shooters who use a long freebore, more powder. I'm not a big fan because of the case bullet concentric problem."

........................( I put all these dotted lines here, cuz' I know it drives K.O. nuts. ) Better not put too many....this is a serious question...No " Fahting" around.

In honor of the briliant dissertation, and quality info here itterated......am going to " Eschew" ( Guzuntite) putting ANY freebore in a reamer ( BPCR Cal.) I'm fixin' to order....

K. O., ...........question....you decide, on this one, make the call, anfd I'll spec it. It's a .40-70 SS, Hornady

*At what nominal distance, from the chamber neck transition / front break over ( at actual groove dia.) should the 1 1/2* leade start?

* What angle should the chamber neck be....so far the standard ( ? ) 45* has given no problems, but maybe something milder?

really appreciate the advice.

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OOPSE,

Do you have a Fax machine? Or would snail mail be better?

I Can fax/send you the drawing for my 44-70 and you can see if that's what you desire for your 40-70.

Kelley O.

Brent , thanks for the info, gives me something more to fiddle with. I've been casting some 390's at .446 for the 43 egyptian that look like they might be a candidate for some 45-70 testing.

The dust killed my fax machine, last summer. It's death groan was heart rending in the extreme. would appreciate the snail mail. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've noticed that date(s) with women(note plural) is more likely to leade(gun term) to other dates, most likely infamous in the context of hysteri...er, historical reckonings, both with guns and knifes...the users less inclined to delicate artwork and more likely to look to results most likened to chainsaws. Chocolate can have remediating effects...(has anybody ever tried Hershey's for lube BTW???) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> those effects are in the main unpredictable, resulting in a range of behavior from contempt to assumption of matrimony.(See "other dates" above).

Now the only thing this has to do with BPCR is gunplay, or patch knives if you lean toward frontend loaders perchance. On another plane this has been quite a remarkable thread IMO, and thanks to all, both for the input on subject, and support on a personal level. I didn't get cut yesterday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I am scheduled for a CT scan tomorrow, and I'm quite certain I will dance with a surgeon shortly. It appears at present that I have a non-malignant tumor between layers of tissue over my left eye and back into the socket a fair piece, ergo the CT scan. What I found yesterday aside from improbability of malignancy, is that it is not attached to the ol' MK-I eyeball, and THAT is a big relief. Too, the girl Friday at Doc's clinic is a dish, so I'll be looking to keep an eye on her.(pun intended) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yesterday I taught her about Dog Jaw, Elephants with 3 balls, and why migrating birds fly in V formations that are longer on one side than the other.

Stay tuned.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Will procede with MK 3 / laser death ray/ prosthetic eyeball R&D, regardless.....................sooner or later, one of us will need it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OOPSE,

E-Mail your address and the drawings on the way.

Kelley O.

D.D.

Good luck with the eye.

Kelley O.

K.O............PM sent

D.D........ until they find out what's up, please don't prolapse your eyball, oogling the hired help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

One thing I dont think was mentioned here in regards to lube is the rotational velocity of the bullet as it wanders its way down the tube. Has anyone consulted Ned Roberts or Harry Pope about rifling and bore configurations? On a lighter note, how about Preperation H for a lube? My rifle is a Winny model 85 Hi-Wall mad in 1892 rebarreled in a heavy octogon to round barrel made y someone whose mark is a J S with the S underneath the J, attached, with 4 prick punch marks around the J-S in a diamond pattern. Chambered in 38-55. The rifle was originaly a sporter that someone started to turn into a target rifle but never finished. This rifle shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds with groove size gas checked bullets (255 gr) using BP or RL-7 and a Soule type peep and Redfield globe front sight I have not a clue as to the barrel internal configuration. Any suggestions as to who might have made it?