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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,470
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,470 |
It means you can hang with the cool kids. Also cuts down on that one jackass in camp that never brings enough ammo. Whats not to like?
WarDamnEagle
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109 |
toss your truck keys to the jackass and tell him to go to town and fetch some ammo, whilst your out whackin' critters ![smile smile](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif)
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. And that idiots will still rant about which they don't understand. Not too much to understand. Even a dumb [bleep] can do it if you try. There's a pretty good discussion about AI going on in another thread. JB explains pretty well what sort of meager increases you get from an AI. 'Course there's that "I don't have to trim as often" thing. That's worth a whole lot to someone that's gonna take the time and trouble to reform brass. Enjoy. I'd rather be shooting.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
Yea. Cus there must be a law somewhere that says you can't kill schit whilst fireforming. Duh!
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. Yawn. Also......There are folks around that think they gotta' kill the fun for others that have been around the block a few times and are bored and just want something different.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
If you are a high volume shooter, there is something to be said for eliminating or greatly reducing the requirement to trim brass. I've found when fl sizing 223's that they need to be trimmed after 1-2 firiings. When you have 1000 cases to trim thet gets real old, real fast. I have much better things to do with my time.
Burning another grain of powder, picking up some speed and saving hours of trimming time, what's not to like? With two boys that are fond of shooting, I can assure you fire forming is far from a chore.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 272
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 272 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. Wait a second.... All I have to do is write "AI" on the case and ... BAM! LASER MOFOIN' DEATH RAY!! Where's my Sharpie??
Montani Semper Liberi
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,634
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,634 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. I must be doing it wrong. Mine has the "AI" on the barrel, not on the case. Who knew?
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130 |
I'd like to know what the real difference in the 223vs223ai velocity is. Do you mean safely?
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,027
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,027 |
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,130 |
Safely I would guess 100 fps, but would also guess alot of guys run them faster not knowing their over pressure!
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6 |
The REAL difference is on the order of ten to fifteen fps; tops. Keep in mind, the only valid comparison is to load the two cartridges to the same pressure in the same barrel. This does not mean the same pressure in a similar barrel or a similar pressure using different components in a longer barrel. It also doesn't mean comparing a maximum load in the AI to a factory load in the standard chambering. These are all favorite techniques of AI advocates. GD
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,794 |
The rule of thumb is 1 to 4. For every 4% you increase your powder capacity, you increase your velocity 1%.
Aim for the exit hole.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 353
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 353 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. Yawn. Also......There are folks around that think they gotta' kill the fun for others that have been around the block a few times and are bored and just want something different. hi bestfreind!
Model 7's FOR LIFE
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,255
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,255 |
The REAL difference is on the order of ten to fifteen fps; tops. Keep in mind, the only valid comparison is to load the two cartridges to the same pressure in the same barrel. This does not mean the same pressure in a similar barrel or a similar pressure using different components in a longer barrel. It also doesn't mean comparing a maximum load in the AI to a factory load in the standard chambering. These are all favorite techniques of AI advocates. GD Love to hear how you know this to be true. Can you please share the equipment you have used to verify this information? Thanks.
Suck bullets simply suck.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,717
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,717 |
It means there are folks that believe that if you increase your powder capacity by 1% thru some alchemy you will increase your velocity by upwards of 25%. Just writing "AI" on the side of the case will turn it into a laser death ray good out to several hundred yards. Wait a second.... All I have to do is write "AI" on the case and ... BAM! LASER MOFOIN' DEATH RAY!! Where's my Sharpie?? I got a fine point here ill mail you when im done AI'ing my Montana. Ill sell it for about as much as a reamer and a gunsmiths rechamber time ![laugh laugh](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif)
If I were smart enough, which apparently I'm not
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6 |
The REAL difference is on the order of ten to fifteen fps; tops. Keep in mind, the only valid comparison is to load the two cartridges to the same pressure in the same barrel. This does not mean the same pressure in a similar barrel or a similar pressure using different components in a longer barrel. It also doesn't mean comparing a maximum load in the AI to a factory load in the standard chambering. These are all favorite techniques of AI advocates. GD Love to hear how you know this to be true. Can you please share the equipment you have used to verify this information? Thanks. I know this to be true mostly because of an accumulation of 35 years of experience as a gunsmith and considerably more than that as a shooter and experimenter. I have chambered "improved" cartridges from the K-Hornet to the 375H&H AI (and this does include the 223 AI) and have chronographed most of them. When tests are run to compare standard and AI'd chambers, the real surprise is often what the parent case will do when loaded to pressures which are accepted as usable by the AI advocates. There are some improved cartridges which can offer a significant increase over the standard case but the 223 isn't one of them; no matter how much we might wish it to be so. GD
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96 |
AI=more expensive, sometimes for a gain of speed, sometimes for just AI and less barrel-life. Really depends on the cartridge.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,255
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,255 |
I know this to be true mostly because of an accumulation of 35 years of experience as a gunsmith and considerably more than that as a shooter and experimenter. I have chambered "improved" cartridges from the K-Hornet to the 375H&H AI (and this does include the 223 AI) and have chronographed most of them. When tests are run to compare standard and AI'd chambers, the real surprise is often what the parent case will do when loaded to pressures which are accepted as usable by the AI advocates. There are some improved cartridges which can offer a significant increase over the standard case but the 223 isn't one of them; no matter how much we might wish it to be so. GD So if someone had 36+ years experience and their experience is contrary to yours what would you say? 10-15 fps is more than a bit difficult for some of us to buy into. I'm not saying to expect several hundred fps gains, but 10-15 fps is significantly lower than my research with a strain gauge display. Of course like most of these posts I could just be guessing myself......
Suck bullets simply suck.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,027
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,027 |
What fps gain does the strain guage display?
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