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Campfire Ranger
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Before anyone thinks I'm being hypercritical, it is close enough right now that I would be ok with states banning all electronic devices save gps and cell phones for emergencies..... You mean you actually want folks to develop hunting skills, like stalking, tracking and still hunting........? Boy that's crazy.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Before anyone thinks I'm being hypercritical, it is close enough right now that I would be ok with states banning all electronic devices save gps and cell phones for emergencies..... You mean you actually want folks to develop hunting skills, like stalking, tracking and still hunting........? Boy that's crazy. Only a complete Jibroney would think anyone worth his Salt posting on this Long Range Forum didn't know how to hunt before mastering long range shooting.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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I hear what your saying bob, the human skill needed if those rifles worked as advertised would be finding an animal, having his stand still long enough to shoot. A couple years back I had a rifle that was just damn amazing. We killed 6 or 7 pigs with it at mile. But I have taken that same rifle on a couple hunts where I ate tags.
Here are some things people forget about long range. Most animals move at dawn and dusk. Your shooting hours are much shorter at long range.
Animals do not stand still. I rarely see animals just standing around in daylight. Usually if an animal with a little pressure on it is on its feet in daylight it has a reason for that and is moving. We do not shoot moving animals.
Sometimes when you happen to see an animal standing around where there is enough light for a shot, the wind screws us. If the wind does not screw us, it takes time to get set up for a shot. Most times about the time you get set up the animal leaves.
Even if your looking to take a long shot most of the time you see an animal you want to take he is not far at all. I do not know a soul that will back off to make the shot longer.
Longrange is not as easy as it seems even given the extended distance. I would guess that I have been on 20 hunts out west with the intent of shooting a long shot if it presented itself. Most of those hunts my animals were shot at short range, or I ended up eating a tag. I have killed a goodly number of pigs at long range, a couple antelope, an elk or three. I have been a part of a lot of longrange kills, where I provided the rifle, and was the spotter, dialer of the scope, but longrange is never a cake walk.
Then you have self doubt. I have set up for a large number of shots that I passed. If I do not feel as comfortable as I would taking a 20 yard bowshot, I will not pull the trigger.
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One of our Canadian gun writers stated a while back that if you put 10 deer hunters in a room and told them to come up with a set of rules for deer hunting, deer hunting itself would be outlawed!
Don't shoot big bucks, don't shoot does or young deer, shoot only small bucks, let small bucks grow, you get the message.
Crap, where does one draw the line ?
I hunt with muzzle loaders as well as stick bows and modern rifles in regular seasons and don't care what someone else hunts with until they tell me MY gear is not as good as there's- that's when the fight starts!!
The big thing for me is being proficient with what I am using, that's why the stick sits this year, I can't accurately pull 40lbs at the moment.
Cat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Campfire Ranger
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Before anyone thinks I'm being hypercritical, it is close enough right now that I would be ok with states banning all electronic devices save gps and cell phones for emergencies..... You mean you actually want folks to develop hunting skills, like stalking, tracking and still hunting........? Boy that's crazy. Only a complete Jibroney would think anyone worth his Salt posting on this Long Range Forum didn't know how to hunt before mastering long range shooting. You'll have to forgive me as I'll never see "the hunt" in a 800 yard plus shot.
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Campfire Ranger
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BobinNH, turn a bunch of LR rifle experts loose in those states,for a few years,give some longer seasons, This is called a strawman in logic. No one has been talking about extending seasons. How about we turn a bunch of LR rifle experts loose in those states and give them a one day season and see what happens?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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I hear what your saying bob, the human skill needed if those rifles worked as advertised would be finding an animal, having his stand still long enough to shoot. A couple years back I had a rifle that was just damn amazing. We killed 6 or 7 pigs with it at mile. But I have taken that same rifle on a couple hunts where I ate tags.
Here are some things people forget about long range. Most animals move at dawn and dusk. Your shooting hours are much shorter at long range.
Animals do not stand still. I rarely see animals just standing around in daylight. Usually if an animal with a little pressure on it is on its feet in daylight it has a reason for that and is moving. We do not shoot moving animals.
Sometimes when you happen to see an animal standing around where there is enough light for a shot, the wind screws us. If the wind does not screw us, it takes time to get set up for a shot. Most times about the time you get set up the animal leaves.
Even if your looking to take a long shot most of the time you see an animal you want to take he is not far at all. I do not know a soul that will back off to make the shot longer.
Longrange is not as easy as it seems even given the extended distance. I would guess that I have been on 20 hunts out west with the intent of shooting a long shot if it presented itself. Most of those hunts my animals were shot at short range, or I ended up eating a tag. I have killed a goodly number of pigs at long range, a couple antelope, an elk or three. I have been a part of a lot of longrange kills, where I provided the rifle, and was the spotter, dialer of the scope, but longrange is never a cake walk.
Then you have self doubt. I have set up for a large number of shots that I passed. If I do not feel as comfortable as I would taking a 20 yard bowshot, I will not pull the trigger.
Good post. But what we're seeing is technology that takes a lot of this stuff into account. The motion tracking software, thermal imaging, etc. I used the Tracking Point as an example, but my understanding is there is other some other really advanced stuff in the works. I wouldn't be surprised to see it advance like many other gadgets....think evolution of the cell phone.
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Campfire Tracker
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Before anyone thinks I'm being hypercritical, it is close enough right now that I would be ok with states banning all electronic devices save gps and cell phones for emergencies..... You mean you actually want folks to develop hunting skills, like stalking, tracking and still hunting........? Boy that's crazy. Only a complete Jibroney would think anyone worth his Salt posting on this Long Range Forum didn't know how to hunt before mastering long range shooting. You'll have to forgive me as I'll never see "the hunt" in a 800 yard plus shot. You may be blind to it, but it is still there. The dedication required is a big part of longrange hunting. Shooting year round when the 2 day a year hunters are doing other thins, plus the mechanical aspect is what I like about it. I look at it as if I get to hunt all year. Taking the longlange shot is just the minute of the hunt that has lasted all year. I have hunted in just about every legal manner. Longrange hunting takes 100X the effort of other types of hunting. Before you start saying well I scout, and I shoot, and I practice walking on my tippie toes like Elmer Fudd, shooting longrange does not keep anyone from doing those same things. The only difference between a longrange hunter and the rest is the dedication that created the ability to take long shots. If it is not for you, oh well. Enjoy all that free time between seasons.
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Campfire Tracker
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I hear what your saying bob, the human skill needed if those rifles worked as advertised would be finding an animal, having his stand still long enough to shoot. A couple years back I had a rifle that was just damn amazing. We killed 6 or 7 pigs with it at mile. But I have taken that same rifle on a couple hunts where I ate tags.
Here are some things people forget about long range. Most animals move at dawn and dusk. Your shooting hours are much shorter at long range.
Animals do not stand still. I rarely see animals just standing around in daylight. Usually if an animal with a little pressure on it is on its feet in daylight it has a reason for that and is moving. We do not shoot moving animals.
Sometimes when you happen to see an animal standing around where there is enough light for a shot, the wind screws us. If the wind does not screw us, it takes time to get set up for a shot. Most times about the time you get set up the animal leaves.
Even if your looking to take a long shot most of the time you see an animal you want to take he is not far at all. I do not know a soul that will back off to make the shot longer.
Longrange is not as easy as it seems even given the extended distance. I would guess that I have been on 20 hunts out west with the intent of shooting a long shot if it presented itself. Most of those hunts my animals were shot at short range, or I ended up eating a tag. I have killed a goodly number of pigs at long range, a couple antelope, an elk or three. I have been a part of a lot of longrange kills, where I provided the rifle, and was the spotter, dialer of the scope, but longrange is never a cake walk.
Then you have self doubt. I have set up for a large number of shots that I passed. If I do not feel as comfortable as I would taking a 20 yard bowshot, I will not pull the trigger.
Good post. But what we're seeing is technology that takes a lot of this stuff into account. The motion tracking software, thermal imaging, etc. I used the Tracking Point as an example, but my understanding is there is other some other really advanced stuff in the works. I wouldn't be surprised to see it advance like many other gadgets....think evolution of the cell phone. What if I take my buddy hunting? I set up the gun, load for it, I range the animal, get the dope, dial in the dope and set the gun up on a bipod and adjust the bags, where all he has to do is squeeze the trigger. Should that be illegal? It may open up longrange hunting to people who were not capable of it before, what does it hurt? Does it take the wounding argument away from anti LR guys. I hear so many of yall say it is the possible wounding that is your issue with LR. I call BS . Here is a system that if it worked takes away the meat and potatoes argument of every guy who thinks longrange is not fair or sporting or ethical because they have some romantic notion of what hunting should be because they hunted that way as kids or read too many issues of field and stream as a teen. Some of us do not need the romance, or we bored with it. If not for longrange I would have probably gotten bored even with bowhunting. Boredom is what made me leave my guns at home and grab a bow only for several years. I kill way fewer animals when I try to use a longrange hunting style than when I just hunt normally. Everyone knows the big ones are in the thick stuff, which is not conducive to that style. Heck I killed more with a bow than I have killed hunting longrange. You just think it is easy. How many times during a hunt do you have an animal you can see unrestricted for even 90 seconds?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I hear what your saying bob, the human skill needed if those rifles worked as advertised would be finding an animal, having his stand still long enough to shoot. A couple years back I had a rifle that was just damn amazing. We killed 6 or 7 pigs with it at mile. But I have taken that same rifle on a couple hunts where I ate tags.
Here are some things people forget about long range. Most animals move at dawn and dusk. Your shooting hours are much shorter at long range.
Animals do not stand still. I rarely see animals just standing around in daylight. Usually if an animal with a little pressure on it is on its feet in daylight it has a reason for that and is moving. We do not shoot moving animals.
Sometimes when you happen to see an animal standing around where there is enough light for a shot, the wind screws us. If the wind does not screw us, it takes time to get set up for a shot. Most times about the time you get set up the animal leaves.
Even if your looking to take a long shot most of the time you see an animal you want to take he is not far at all. I do not know a soul that will back off to make the shot longer.
Longrange is not as easy as it seems even given the extended distance. I would guess that I have been on 20 hunts out west with the intent of shooting a long shot if it presented itself. Most of those hunts my animals were shot at short range, or I ended up eating a tag. I have killed a goodly number of pigs at long range, a couple antelope, an elk or three. I have been a part of a lot of longrange kills, where I provided the rifle, and was the spotter, dialer of the scope, but longrange is never a cake walk.
Then you have self doubt. I have set up for a large number of shots that I passed. If I do not feel as comfortable as I would taking a 20 yard bowshot, I will not pull the trigger.
See this is what I mean about guys with experience fully understanding the limitations,and staying off the trigger;having the restraint to hold off until conditions are right. Ringman I threw in the comment about extended seasons to demonstrate the need for some regulations beyond simply firearms selection....you missed that or I did not make it clear. It was not intended to be a straw man argument.But my premise still stands...rifle hunters would still put a hurt on those mid western deer if allowed . Here,our seasons are approximately a month,success rates 10% for ANY deer...we can't really dent them.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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We do not need more government regulations/laws. Ethics, morals can not be legislated these are up to the individual, in a free society, why do so many want to take away peoples freedom. Educate not legislate.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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More laws!
More laws!
Technology don't fix stupid..... and laws can't regulate stupid.
If you don't like how I hunt..... you can GFY. I bought my license.... I bought my tags..... It's going in my freezer and on my plate.
Seems to me, everybody these days is about half-Nazi..... willing to sell the next guy's (read other hunter's) rights down the river for a little 'advancement' of their own noble cause.....
I despise Walmart monkey's paunch shooting deer with 'sound shots' from a bore-sighted rifle..... I don't like bears over bait..... not a big fan of feeders/fences.... but I'll never put my signature on anything that inhibits my hunting brothers from doing any of the above. If you don't like it.... don't do it.... but don't tell me that my second-hand long range gun smoke is giving the rest of the hunting community cancer.... that's horse schitt.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Campfire Outfitter
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Your argument would make sense if things were wide open. The fact is, we are far from free to do as we please in the game fields. This isn't the Great Plains of 1805, or the Serengeti of 1900. We must try and figure out a way to ensure game survival while still allowing the hunt, and it's certainly different in every locale.
In Montana, I cannot shoot from vehicles, or hunt at night. I can't hunt with a crossbow during archery season. These laws are in place to limit the kill, give animals a fighting chance, and ensure a healthy population of game survives until next year.
Sure, some of the laws are likely arbitrary, but one only has to look at places like the Northern Cheyenne Reservation to see the need for regulation. This Rez doesn't have a season...it's a free for all. I believe I saw my first set of deer tracks there last year, after driving through for 30 years.
As Bob mentioned, depending on where on hunts, the methods will differ depending on topography, game populations, and a whole mess of other stuff. 'Tis a good thing that states are able to regulate these laws and not the Feds....what a mess that would be.
Overall, people must be limited in the ways in which they kill, and game laws ensure we are. Any technology that virtually eliminates the human involvement, other than showing up and yanking the trigger, has made things far too easy.
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Campfire Ranger
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Any technology that virtually eliminates the human involvement, other than showing up and yanking the trigger, has made things far too easy. People who yank the trigger.................miss !
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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I hear you PG... but just because some rules exist, doesn't mean they're right.... or necessary. The existence of laws neither validates the law itself as just, nor does it justify the creation of new law.
Game Regulations (Laws) should be just that.... GAME Laws. Why do we feel the need to regulate how game is taken? At the end of the day it's a management and money issue... We need this much dough.... and this many dead deer, safely. Shooting from a road.... safety issue. Shooting at night.... also a safety issue. Personally.... I don't care if you shot that buck doing 107 down I90 at 0230 on a night darker'n a black steer's toukuss on a moonless night. Personally I do care if you run a 150 Horn through my daughter's bedroom... as would 99.9% of the general public.... hence said 'safety' related laws. I get those....
Furthermore.... we, as a hunting community, are all living in one big azz glass condo complex here. We struggle enough as a whole.... fighting on the gun control front, the environmentalist front, the Fed front.... etc. Byching at one another over methodology and technology.... then creating more 'laws' in that regard... only serves to discourage participation and fan the flames of all those hippies. It's akin to having sling-shot fight in said condo complex.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Any technology that virtually eliminates the human involvement, other than showing up and yanking the trigger, has made things far too easy. People who yank the trigger.................miss ! The Tracking Point software accounts for yanking the trigger.
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Campfire Kahuna
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[/quote]
You'll have to forgive me as I'll never see "the hunt" in a 800 yard plus shot. [/quote]
Ok, to solve this, lets call it a shoot instead of a hunt, and its done and we can move on. Many things are shoots instead of hunts. Guided hunts are almost always shoots. Planted food plots are. Feeders are. And so on.
Sometimes by folks thoughts, I hunt. Sometimes I shoot. Sometimes I do both. Sometimes neither. I"m still happy and doesn't bother me what others think.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Sometimes by folks thoughts, I hunt. Sometimes I shoot. Sometimes I do both. Sometimes neither. I"m still happy and doesn't bother me what others think. You and I are on the same page.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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You'll have to forgive me as I'll never see "the hunt" in a 800 yard plus shot. [/quote] Ok, to solve this, lets call it a shoot instead of a hunt, and its done and we can move on. Many things are shoots instead of hunts. Guided hunts are almost always shoots. Planted food plots are. Feeders are. And so on. Sometimes by folks thoughts, I hunt. Sometimes I shoot. Sometimes I do both. Sometimes neither. I"m still happy and doesn't bother me what others think. [/quote] Well said. Somtimes the morning after I drink and post I wonder wth I was thinking at the time.  We do not need more laws for sure but if we did there are a hell of a lot of issues I would address before tackling long range.
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You'll have to forgive me as I'll never see "the hunt" in a 800 yard plus shot.
Maybe you can see it if I describe a hunt that was just that. Unlike New Jersey, the West is pretty open country. It's open even in some seriously, God-forsaken, rocky, steep, cactusey country where Goats and Sheep live. Went on an Ibex hunt with three buddies. Glassed up some animals about 2 miles away. The stalk to get there involved traversing steep terrain both up and down. It involved getting into a dry, rocky arroyo bed, climbing waterfall areas, sneaking through thorn bushes. 2 Hours later we were within 1100 yards There was a rocky outcropping in front and above us that we could make it to without being seen that would provide a 760 yard shot. To attempt getting closer would have exposed us across a canyon diagonally and blew the animals out of the area. Made it to the rock outcropping circled in the pic and set up for the shot. Standing in the spot the animal was killed taking the pic back to the spot of the shot. Animals were spotted from the top of the knob that the red arrow is pointing at. It took an additional 1 hour to make it over to the animal. ![[Linked Image]](http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/RockShot-1.jpg)
Last edited by rcamuglia; 11/22/13.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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