Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Wincheter model 12 small frame 16 guage

Hello all, I am away from my books for a spell and it has been too long since I read them. I was wondering about small frame 16 guage model 12's. Can anyone teach me about these. As I understand it, some model 12 16 gauges were made on 20 guage receivers. How can you tell the difference? When were these produced?

I have a 50,s era Model 12 16 Gauge, it is on a 20 Gauge frame.

Going with me to SD this month for pheasants.

I believe all model 12 16 gauge were made on the smaller receiver. The earliest ones were chambered for 2 9/16" (working from memory here) shells, til about 1927. Later 2 3/4" chambers had a larger radius at the front of the action "opening". Lots of info at the attached website.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/

I have the Model 12 16 ga made in the 1920's and it feels lighter and smaller that the Model 12 20 ga made after the 2&3/4 shell change in the 30's .

Winchester used different sized receivers for different gauges on their model 12's. However I have heard of but never seen, a 16 guage model 12 built on a smaller 20 guage frame. I just would like to hear some history of these, as I am many states away from my research books.

If the diameter of a 16 and 20 barrel are the same then the difference is the 16 barrel weighs less given the same length.

Notice the same thing on a Parker Reproduction 20/16 two barrel set. The 16 seems and is lighter and quicker than when the 20 is on. Bigger hole equals less barrel weight.

There were only two frame sizes for the Model 12 - 12 gauge and everything else. As such, there is no such thing as a small frame Model 12, as all 16 gauge Model 12s have the same frame size (nor is it the 20 gauge frame...the 20 would more appropriately be described as being built on a 16 gauge frame).

These are delightful guns, especially in field grade get up. Mine, with 28" plain barrel (a 1958 model), weighs 6 1/2# and is as good a chukar gun as one can find.

Actually the first model 12s were 20 gauge so it would be correct in saying the 16s were built on 20 gauge actions.

If the frame accommodates a larger gauge, the conventional usage is to say it's on the larger frame.

Take it as you like...

I have a 16 Gauge Model 12 made in 1926 --- It's receiver size/barrel diameter are much smaller than a 12 gauge. It's stock dimensions (never altered) are also smaller/shorter than a 12 gauge. It's too short for most men.

Correct and GF1 said the same.

Although the 16 Gauge I have, had an unaltered stock that was long and I had it shortened.

Gentlemen,

I am no expert on Model 12's but I have several, including a 16ga. serial#477XXX (mfg. 1927), 26" NICKEL STEEL barrel w/cyl bore. Careful examination of the back side of the slide bar reveals "16-20" stamped on it. A newer example 16ga. Model 12 in my posession, serial #716XXX (mfg. 1936), 28" WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL barrel w/mod choke does not have this mark on the slide bar. Right or wrong, I always been of the opinion that the 16ga. Model 12 was built on the 20ga. frame.

Gerry

I have 2 and they are both on the 20 gauge frame. About as good as it gets for a pump gun.