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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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So how does this co-exist with CHRISTianity. Clearly, it doesn't.
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Campfire Ranger
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He first lays out the four dictionary definitions of the word religion. Then he explains how masonry fits the first three. Next is this:
QUOTE:
"But it must be confessed that the fourth definition does not appear to be strictly applicable to Freemasonry. It has no pretension to assume a place among the religions of the world as a sectarian "system of faith and worship," in the sense in which we distinguish Christianity from Judaism, or Judaism from Mohammedanism. In this meaning of the word we do not and can not speak of the Masonic religion, nor say of a man that he is not a Christian, but a Freemason. Here it is that the opponents of Freemasonry have assumed mistaken ground in confounding the idea of a religious Institution with that of the Christian religion as a peculiar form of worship, and in supposing, because Freemasonry teaches religious truth, that it is offered as a substitute for Christian truth and Christian obligation. Its warmest and most enlightened friends have never advanced nor supported such a claim. Freemasonry is not Christianity, nor a substitute for it. It is not intended to supersede it nor any other form of worship or system of faith. It does not meddle with sectarian creeds or doctrines, but teaches fundamental religious truth� not enough to do away with the necessity of the Christian scheme of salvation, but more than enough to show, to demonstrate, that it is, in every philosophical sense of the word, a religious Institution, and one, too, in which the true Christian Freemason will find if he earnestly seeks for them, abundant types and shadows of his own exalted and divinely inspired faith."
END QUOTE I just read the response and I appreciate it. We are discussing in the context is Masonry and Christianity compatible? You are still contending that even though Mr.Mackey says himself that Masonry fits 75%, 3 of 4 definitions of a religion, yet in his opinion doesn't fit the Fourth (left out by the author of the article, I didn't write it so will not speculate as to why, but if it doesn't apply why consider it) that Masonry is not intended to be a religion? Mr.Mackey then goes on in your quote from the encyclopedia to say, "But it must be confessed that the fourth definition does not appear to be strictly applicable to Freemasonry. It has no pretension to assume a place among the religions of the world as a sectarian "system of faith and worship," in the sense in which we distinguish Christianity from Judaism, or Judaism from Mohammedanism. In this meaning of the word we do not and can not speak of the Masonic religion, nor say of a man that he is not a Christian, but a Freemason." So again he, the expert, speaks of the "Masonic religion."
The religion of Masonry doesn't have the pretense to call itself a religion like Christianity, Judaism or Mohammedanism...because it is a secret religion that operates in darkness(devil) and hidden ceremonies. It is not out in the public, in the light(God)..Several mentions of teaching religious truths! We have examples of scriptures with Jesus left out, so as not to offend!
If not Biblical truths then they are chaff to be separated from the wheat.
Its warmest and most enlightened have never advanced or supported a claim that Masonry is Christian. ( a religion but not Christianity, therefore at odds)
Freemasonry is not Christianity. (but a religion none the less)
Ever heard you are either for us or against us? Our God is a jealous God and rightfully so!
Christian "scheme" of salvation, ( I contend Jesus dying on the cross was no scheme and the very word has an underhanded or deceitful connotation which I personally find offensive! I dare say nobody will face Jesus and thank Him for His "scheme" of salvation.)
Masonry is more than enough to demonstrate that it is in every philosophical sense of the word a religious Institution!!
Again not Christian therefore against it, you are either Hot or Cold not both.
AND if a true Christian Freemason earnestly seeks for them, abundant "types" and "shadows" (darkness again (devil) of his own exalted and divinely inspired faith....The Bible predicts many will be fooled by falsehoods and deceit. I have over shot my bedtime so maybe more later today! Mike Good post Mike. When you KOTY�s get done rehashing all the discredited anti-FreeMasons bigotry you�ve posted and finished insulting all the Masons who have posted on this long thread, by telling them these good men are too na�ve and gullible to understand what they have been doing most of their lives�Here, one more time�is what the people who know best say about their own Brotherhood� Statement on Freemasonry and ReligionPrepared by the Masonic Information Center Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It requires of its members a belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic meetings. The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address the Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred. Volume of the Sacred Law. An open volume of the Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life," is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law in the Judeo/Christian tradition is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them. The Oath of Freemasonry. The obligations taken by Freemasons are sworn on the Volume of the Sacred Law. They are undertakings to follow the principles of Freemasonry and to keep confidential a Freemason's means of recognition. The much discussed "penalties," judicial remnants from an earlier era, are symbolic, not literal. They refer only to the pain any honest man should feel at the thought of violating his word. Freemasonry Compared with Religion. Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of religion: (a) It has no dogma or theology, no wish or means to enforce religious orthodoxy. (b) It offers no sacraments. (c) It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge, or by any other means. The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition, not with the means of salvation. Freemasonry Supports Religion. Freemasonry is far from indifferent toward religion. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions. Prepared by the Masonic Information Center(12/93) Revised (9/98)
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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do u do gay men's bachelor parties? No, and that wasn't very nice. I'm telling Jesus.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Will...let it go, they do not care about your beliefs or anything approaching honesty.
The couple that keep at it are only doing so as they can see that it gets under your skin, and they twist the knife because it causes pain, and nothing you do or say will ever change how they operate.
Have a good Christmas. True this. Merry Christmas. Happy Winter Solstice, Derby Dude. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Happy Winter Solstice, Derby Dude. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you. Merry Christmas.
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Campfire Outfitter
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When one puts 10 members here on "ignore" this $hit is only 62 posts���.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Wow I made an ignore list!!! I'm so proud  Mike
God, Family, and Country.
NRA Endowment Member
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
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He first lays out the four dictionary definitions of the word religion. Then he explains how masonry fits the first three. Next is this:
QUOTE:
"But it must be confessed that the fourth definition does not appear to be strictly applicable to Freemasonry. It has no pretension to assume a place among the religions of the world as a sectarian "system of faith and worship," in the sense in which we distinguish Christianity from Judaism, or Judaism from Mohammedanism. In this meaning of the word we do not and can not speak of the Masonic religion, nor say of a man that he is not a Christian, but a Freemason. Here it is that the opponents of Freemasonry have assumed mistaken ground in confounding the idea of a religious Institution with that of the Christian religion as a peculiar form of worship, and in supposing, because Freemasonry teaches religious truth, that it is offered as a substitute for Christian truth and Christian obligation. Its warmest and most enlightened friends have never advanced nor supported such a claim. Freemasonry is not Christianity, nor a substitute for it. It is not intended to supersede it nor any other form of worship or system of faith. It does not meddle with sectarian creeds or doctrines, but teaches fundamental religious truth� not enough to do away with the necessity of the Christian scheme of salvation, but more than enough to show, to demonstrate, that it is, in every philosophical sense of the word, a religious Institution, and one, too, in which the true Christian Freemason will find if he earnestly seeks for them, abundant types and shadows of his own exalted and divinely inspired faith."
END QUOTE I just read the response and I appreciate it. We are discussing in the context is Masonry and Christianity compatible? You are still contending that even though Mr.Mackey says himself that Masonry fits 75%, 3 of 4 definitions of a religion, yet in his opinion doesn't fit the Fourth (left out by the author of the article, I didn't write it so will not speculate as to why, but if it doesn't apply why consider it) that Masonry is not intended to be a religion? Mr.Mackey then goes on in your quote from the encyclopedia to say, "But it must be confessed that the fourth definition does not appear to be strictly applicable to Freemasonry. It has no pretension to assume a place among the religions of the world as a sectarian "system of faith and worship," in the sense in which we distinguish Christianity from Judaism, or Judaism from Mohammedanism. In this meaning of the word we do not and can not speak of the Masonic religion, nor say of a man that he is not a Christian, but a Freemason." So again he, the expert, speaks of the "Masonic religion."
The religion of Masonry doesn't have the pretense to call itself a religion like Christianity, Judaism or Mohammedanism...because it is a secret religion that operates in darkness(devil) and hidden ceremonies. It is not out in the public, in the light(God)..Several mentions of teaching religious truths! We have examples of scriptures with Jesus left out, so as not to offend!
If not Biblical truths then they are chaff to be separated from the wheat.
Its warmest and most enlightened have never advanced or supported a claim that Masonry is Christian. ( a religion but not Christianity, therefore at odds)
Freemasonry is not Christianity. (but a religion none the less)
Ever heard you are either for us or against us? Our God is a jealous God and rightfully so!
Christian "scheme" of salvation, ( I contend Jesus dying on the cross was no scheme and the very word has an underhanded or deceitful connotation which I personally find offensive! I dare say nobody will face Jesus and thank Him for His "scheme" of salvation.)
Masonry is more than enough to demonstrate that it is in every philosophical sense of the word a religious Institution!!
Again not Christian therefore against it, you are either Hot or Cold not both.
AND if a true Christian Freemason earnestly seeks for them, abundant "types" and "shadows" (darkness again (devil) of his own exalted and divinely inspired faith....The Bible predicts many will be fooled by falsehoods and deceit. I have over shot my bedtime so maybe more later today! Mike Good post Mike. When you KOTY�s get done rehashing all the discredited anti-FreeMasons bigotry you�ve posted and finished insulting all the Masons who have posted on this long thread, by telling them these good men are too na�ve and gullible to understand what they have been doing most of their lives�Here, one more time�is what the people who know best say about their own Brotherhood� Statement on Freemasonry and ReligionPrepared by the Masonic Information Center Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It requires of its members a belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic meetings. The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address the Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred. Volume of the Sacred Law. An open volume of the Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life," is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law in the Judeo/Christian tradition is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them. The Oath of Freemasonry. The obligations taken by Freemasons are sworn on the Volume of the Sacred Law. They are undertakings to follow the principles of Freemasonry and to keep confidential a Freemason's means of recognition. The much discussed "penalties," judicial remnants from an earlier era, are symbolic, not literal. They refer only to the pain any honest man should feel at the thought of violating his word. Freemasonry Compared with Religion. Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of religion: (a) It has no dogma or theology, no wish or means to enforce religious orthodoxy. (b) It offers no sacraments. (c) It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge, or by any other means. The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition, not with the means of salvation. Freemasonry Supports Religion. Freemasonry is far from indifferent toward religion. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions. Prepared by the Masonic Information Center(12/93) Revised (9/98) These 2 statements from their beliefs contradict each other. If it includes ALL faiths, then how can it exclude all polytheistic faiths? Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, Masons believe that there is one God
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 34,261 |
Good call Rock Chuck I missed that one.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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These 2 statements from their beliefs contradict each other. If it includes ALL faiths, then how can it exclude all polytheistic faiths? Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, Masons believe that there is one God Hardly a contradiction at all. One statement is subject to the other. Put them together and you get� Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, who believe in one God. Jeez� Rather a nitpicking minor point compared to the message. Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. This
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. This I believe you've all convinced yourself of that because the implications of facing reality seem too bleak for you, i.e., giving something up that you perceive as filling in a lot of gaps in your lives.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I believe you've all convinced yourself of that because the implications of facing reality seem too bleak for you, i.e., giving something up that you perceive as filling in a lot of gaps in your lives. yeah, i'm sure worshiping satan is filling in a lot of gaps for masons.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. This I believe you've all convinced yourself of that because the implications of facing reality seem too bleak for you, i.e., giving something up that you perceive as filling in a lot of gaps in your lives. Don't take off your foil hat
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Don't take off your foil hat All you got left, huh?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Is that a challenge?
I tell you what. Look up your local Masonic Lodge and declare jihad.
After your done with that work your way towards SEMO
I'll see ya when you get here
Funny thing is.....I know your type.....you don't take your mouth out of the house
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. This I believe you've all convinced yourself of that because the implications of facing reality seem too bleak for you, i.e., giving something up that you perceive as filling in a lot of gaps in your lives.
Prepared by the Masonic Information CenterBasic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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