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I thought grizzly seasons were halted in the 70's. I stand corrected.

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So how did all the plains grizzlys ever survive without whitebark pines?

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Originally Posted by bellydeep
I wish those bastards would stay in the hills. I don't like having to worry about them while I walk creek bottoms for pheasants.


+1. Or other recreational activities. Can't think of many things more frightening than having a showdown with a grizzly.


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I was born and raised in grizzly country here in Montana. Have spent plenty of time hunting among them, along with hiking in Glacier National Park. Have been within 50 feet of grizzlies a couple of times in Glacier and the Bob Marshall Wilderness and both left. Have also packed fresh game meat out on my back in areas with plenty of grizzly sign. Have been doing stuff like that for almost 50 years, and the biggest problem so far was when a bear tore up part of a tent camp, looking for food, after an outfitter friend and I left the camp for a couple of days.

Have also hunted considerably in grizzly country in Alaska, Alberta, British Columbia and the Northwest Territories. Have been bluff-charged twice, both times by mama bears with cubs. That was on Kodiak Island, and both charges happened in the same morning. In my six other trips to Alaska have seen plenty of other grizzlies and browns, sometimes within 20-30 feet, and none of those have threatened me in the slightest.

Have also taken one grizzly in Alaska, in two hunts. That seems to be about the normal success rate for inland bears, and believe me, it generally takes considerable looking to find one, even when you're tent-camped not far from a well-beaten bear trail.

That doesn't mean people haven't been killed by grizzlies in Montana. Obviously that's happened, but the chance of being injured or dying while traveling to and from Montana is probably a million times greater than being attacked by a bear while hunting.

Statistically, the most dangerous large animal in Montana isn't the grizzly bear, but the saddle horse. Now, obviously there are a lot more horses than grizzlies in the state, but if you book a horseback hunt in the Montana wilderness, the odds are still considerably greater of being hurt or even killed by your horse than just seeing a grizzly bear.

I realize all that doesn't provide any comfort, since apparently one of the most horrible things many people can imagine is being attacked by a wild animal with large teeth and claws. But it's reality.


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Originally Posted by Ralphie
So how did all the plains grizzlys ever survive without whitebark pines?


There were plenty of food sources on the plains for the bears when Lewis & Clark first saw them. As the bears were killed off, and pushed back into undesirable habitat (by white settler standards), they adapted to different food sources.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I was born and raised in grizzly country here in Montana. Have spent plenty of time hunting among them, along with hiking in Glacier National Park. Have been within 50 feet of grizzlies a couple of times in Glacier and the Bob Marshall Wilderness and both left. Have also packed fresh game meat out on my back in areas with plenty of grizzly sign. Have been doing stuff like that for almost 50 years, and the biggest problem so far was when a bear tore up part of a tent camp, looking for food, after an outfitter friend and I left the camp for a couple of days.

Have also hunted considerably in grizzly country in Alaska, Alberta, British Columbia and the Northwest Territories. Have been bluff-charged twice, both times by mama bears with cubs. That was on Kodiak Island, and both charges happened in the same morning. In my six other trips to Alaska have seen plenty of other grizzlies and browns, sometimes within 20-30 feet, and none of those have threatened me in the slightest.

Have also taken one grizzly in Alaska, in two hunts. That seems to be about the normal success rate for inland bears, and believe me, it generally takes considerable looking to find one, even when you're tent-camped not far from a well-beaten bear trail.

That doesn't mean people haven't been killed by grizzlies in Montana. Obviously that's happened, but the chance of being injured or dying while traveling to and from Montana is probably a million times greater than being attacked by a bear while hunting.

Statistically, the most dangerous large animal in Montana isn't the grizzly bear, but the saddle horse. Now, obviously there are a lot more horses than grizzlies in the state, but if you book a horseback hunt in the Montana wilderness, the odds are still considerably greater of being hurt or even killed by your horse than just seeing a grizzly bear.

I realize all that doesn't provide any comfort, since apparently one of the most horrible things many people can imagine is being attacked by a wild animal with large teeth and claws. But it's reality.


I've been around big bears, and I've been around a horse or two. I'll take the bears.

I think it's great their range is expanding. But then, I like my wilds a little wild.


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It cool as long as you can blow their guts out without going to prison or selling your house to pay the fine.


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DLP.

Works for horses too laugh


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Explain the horse being more dangerous than the bear.

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It's all numbers. You have a high number of horse/man interaction you will have more injuries. If you had the same number of horse/man and grizzly/man interaction as in same amount of hours spent, I wonder how the stats would read?


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Originally Posted by MT_DD_FAN
Originally Posted by Ralphie
So how did all the plains grizzlys ever survive without whitebark pines?


There were plenty of food sources on the plains for the bears when Lewis & Clark first saw them. As the bears were killed off, and pushed back into undesirable habitat (by white settler standards), they adapted to different food sources.


I was being just a bit sarcastic. The whitebark pine deal is blown way out of proportion for the mtn bears. For political reasons. There are no (or very very few) whitebark pines in many of the mtn areas right now. Right above my house is a perfect example, lots of bears and no whitebark pines. Yet the greenies would have us believe that the bear's existence depends on them.

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It is important to know the changing dynamics related to the white pine bark though. Grizz are very adaptive, and as a result of the WPB and the lack of cutthroat they've turned to elk and other sources of food.

Surely they can adapt anywhere which speaks volumes in terms of their adaptability to changing habitats, unfortunately too many want to cherry pick issues when it comes to grizz and wolves.


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Originally Posted by Ralphie
Originally Posted by MT_DD_FAN
Originally Posted by Ralphie
So how did all the plains grizzlys ever survive without whitebark pines?


There were plenty of food sources on the plains for the bears when Lewis & Clark first saw them. As the bears were killed off, and pushed back into undesirable habitat (by white settler standards), they adapted to different food sources.


I was being just a bit sarcastic. The whitebark pine deal is blown way out of proportion for the mtn bears. For political reasons. There are no (or very very few) whitebark pines in many of the mtn areas right now. Right above my house is a perfect example, lots of bears and no whitebark pines. Yet the greenies would have us believe that the bear's existence depends on them.


Me too, because there are too many people that believe anything posted on the Internet is true... grin


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I'd still take the bears over the cats.

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Originally Posted by jryoung
It is important to know the changing dynamics related to the white pine bark though. Grizz are very adaptive, and as a result of the WPB and the lack of cutthroat they've turned to elk and other sources of food.

Surely they can adapt anywhere which speaks volumes in terms of their adaptability to changing habitats, unfortunately too many want to cherry pick issues when it comes to grizz and wolves.


The cutthroat trout deal is another wild goose chase. I've mentioned this before but we have a camp south of the park. I know guys who've been in that country for 40 years. I've only been going in for ten. No one I've talked to has seen those bears fishing. When the trout are up the creeks you'll see pools full of fish. You'd think the bears would be there fishing, but they aren't.

And we go in there to fish so we are there when the fish would be available. We see bears but they aren't fishing. And one of the best pools is visible from camp. And we see bears crossing that stretch. I'm sure some bears have caught fish but I can't believe it was any sort of major food source. The fish are really only in the streams for a few weeks.


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A friend was bowhunting near Choteau when a sow with cubs walked under his tree stand. The sow took issue with his deer decoy, attaking it and sending the cubs up a tree. Neat video.

There have been unconfirmed sightings of them in the Snowy MTN by Lewistown too. My wife insist I never leave home to go bowhunting or hiking without a gun since all these bears are moving into the plains. Heck, there was one just north of Great Falls last year and they are becoming regualrs arounf the towns of Simms and Sun River.

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My guiding buddy up in Alaska has said he always feared a cow moose with calf than a sow and cub. Not by much, but the cow will not back down as readily as a sow. However his last encounter was with a sow who bailed off the narrow river bank and attacked the river boat. She had twins on the bank playing. It was caught on film by an archery hunt crew. A S&W 500 bullet was sent in her direction to scare her back onshore. He didn't want any DLP paperwork to fill out.


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Originally Posted by bigwhoop
My guiding buddy up in Alaska has said he always feared a cow moose with calf than a sow and cub. Not by much, but the cow will not back down as readily as a sow. However his last encounter was with a sow who bailed off the narrow river bank and attacked the river boat. She had twins on the bank playing. It was caught on film by an archery hunt crew. A S&W 500 bullet was sent in her direction to scare her back onshore. He didn't want any DLP paperwork to fill out.


Someone posted a link of the vid of that charge awhile back. Fred Eichler was the archer IIRC.

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I don't like having them around town. But there isn't a whole lot that can be done. My dad has had to bring the pickup and get my brother and me out of our tree stands before. My brother was in a stand when a sow and 2 cubs came walking up. She stood up and looked at him and wouldn't leave. That was only 5 miles from town. Dad had to come get me out of my stand when a sow and cub walked by my treestand and also wouldn't leave. I was less than a mile out of town. Seems like every year more and more show up around town. Only a matter of time until something bad happens. The school has had to cancel recess a few times in the last couple years because of grizzlies in the area.


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+1 DT.
Some of these guys are nuts.
Be careful what you wish for, your days of needing to pack a bear fence for your plains camping/hunting could be a reality--make that an absolute necessity.

I dealt with them for years while living in Alaska and had at least one very serious life-threatening encounter. I expected them there, but it didn't make it any easier to deal with them.
To think they could be abundant on the plains is trouble.


Screw every last damn one of them.

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